Macerator advice for newbie

[Lucy387]

Hi there,

I’m having a new bathroom installed and the awkward shape of room means that the best option is to move the toilet and fit a macerator.

I have chosen for a corner toilet as it’s the best space-saving option, but would appreciate some words of advice and wisdom when it comes to the macerator.

There is very little space behind the corner toilet to accommodate a macerator and I am struggling to find a macerator with suitable dimensions.
Can I place the macerator long-ways against the wall and run a flexible pipe from the spigot to the macerator? It would be about 1ft/
1 1/2ft long.
Or does the macerator need to be directly attached to the toilet spigot?

Advice gratefully received! I am not a plumber, just a home-owner who is trying to learn the most basic of basics! ☺️

 

[Riley]

@rpm would you be good enough to help

 

[rpm]

Any make & model in mind Lucy?

 

[Riley]

Thanks mate

 

[Burger]

Research suggests it’s possible with one of these, don’t know how good they are, I haven’t heard of them. (Hideaway macerator)

Macerator Pumps For Sale Saniflo Uniflo macerators

 

[Lucy387]

Any make & model in mind Lucy?

Well, I haven't decided on one yet as it all depends on whether I am restricted to having it behind the toilet or not. But I was initially looking at the SaniAccess 2
SANIACCESS 2 – SANIFLO

But it won't fit behind the toilet so if I can't add a flexible hose, then I will need to find a more compact one. It is for my main bathroom so will get a fair amount of usage.

@CBW1982 suggested this one which could be a good option.
Uniflo-Flush Hide Away Macerator Pump 22mm discharge

 

[Lucy387]

Research suggests it’s possible with one of these, don’t know how good they are, I haven’t heard of them. (Hideaway macerator)

Macerator Pumps For Sale Saniflo Uniflo macerators

Thank you! I hadn't come across these but it could be just what I am after. I'll investigate 🙂

 

[rpm]

Certainly cheaper than the Sanipack.

 

[Ben-gee]

If it’s going to get a lot of use I would think seriously about a different layout or getting 4” soil to it.
Have you had a decent bathroom designer look at your options?
A macerator is really for for when NO other options are available , as I sure ( most) people on here would agree.

 

[Burger]

Hi there,

I’m having a new bathroom installed and the awkward shape of room means that the best option is to move the toilet and fit a macerator.

I have chosen for a corner toilet as it’s the best space-saving option, but would appreciate some words of advice and wisdom when it comes to the macerator.

There is very little space behind the corner toilet to accommodate a macerator and I am struggling to find a macerator with suitable dimensions.
Can I place the macerator long-ways against the wall and run a flexible pipe from the spigot to the macerator? It would be about 1ft/
1 1/2ft long.
Or does the macerator need to be directly attached to the toilet spigot?

Advice gratefully received! I am not a plumber, just a home-owner who is trying to learn the most basic of basics! ☺️

Just had a thought in relation to what Ben-gee said, what is your current set-up? Any photos? Maybe we can suggest to help you based on that?

 

[Lucy387]

Wow, really kind of you all, thanks.
Well, I would love to get a bathroom designer, but am on a very tight budget (first home etc) and all the quotes I received were way above my price range.
So I've had some advice from the bathroom fitter, who said that the main problem is the distance that I want to move the toilet. He said that I wouldn't get the fall on the soil pipe and that a macerator would be the best option.
I have attached a drawing (not to scale but dimensions of the room included).
I have the new bath suite, so am fairly fixed on the smaller, deeper tub and corner toilet.
Would also have to be an internal soil pipe otherwise it would run across the front of my house. Plumber said there would be room for it, the only issue is creating the fall.

 

[Burger]

I’m just inquisitive, why all the moving? Any reason why (I’ve attached amended drawing) toilet can’t go where I’ve highlighted blue, the soaking tub/shower go where green,and sink in one of the yellows?

 

[Lucy387]

I’m just inquisitive, why all the moving? Any reason why (I’ve attached amended drawing) toilet can’t go where I’ve highlighted blue, the soaking tub/shower go where green,and sink in one of the yellows?

View attachment 38969

Unfortunately, the tub is too wide to go there. It would leave me with barely a foot at the side to walk through to reach the toilet. It’s bad enough now with a 680mm wide bath. Soaking tub is 900 x 1150. Opted for a shorter, deeper bath so it could go in the alcove where the existing toilet is.

 

[Riley]

Which way do your joists run and are any of the walls of the bathroom outside wallS

 

[Burger]

Which way do your joists run and are any of the walls of the bathroom outside wallS

Looks like joists run same way as bath, nails on photo give an indication.

 

[Burger]

Unfortunately, the tub is too wide to go there. It would leave me with barely a foot at the side to walk through to reach the toilet. It’s bad enough now with a 680mm wide bath. Soaking tub is 900 x 1150. Opted for a shorter, deeper bath so it could go in the alcove where the existing toilet is.

View attachment 38975

Would that boxing in have to go when new bath installed? If not, why not run soil pipe through that? I don’t see how fall is much of an issue.

 

[Ben-gee]

Mountains and molehills spring to mind.
Cbw don’t have to look for nails, just perpendicular to the floorboards! (I know they can be double boarded but hey c’mon guys )

 

[Burger]

Mountains and molehills spring to mind.
Cbw don’t have to look for nails, just perpendicular to the floorboards! (I know they can be double boarded but hey c’mon guys )

I wasn’t trying to be nasty or make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Lucy387]

Looks like joists run same way as bath, nails on photo give an indication.

Yes, the joists run in the same direction as the bath. The sink and the toilet are on the outside walls. The sink wall is the front of the house and the toilet wall is the side of the house.

 

[Ben-gee]

I wasn’t trying to be nasty or make a mountain out of a molehill.

No, sorry cbw I didn’t mean you.
I just meant however advised the op that she had to have a macerator.
Like you I can see other solutions.

 

[Lucy387]

There is space behind the boxing in and the pipe would fit behind the bath.
The plumber said that the only issue was creating enough fall so he asked me to find a toilet with a high outlet. When I couldn’t find one, he said I’d need to have a macerator.
So in your opinion, can I get away with having a normal toilet and running the soil pipe internally along the wall and boxing it in? It would run for about 2 1/2 metres, including around two corners, from the toilet to the soil stack. Are you saying that the fall isn’t a problem?

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[Burger]

I just said I couldn’t see the fall being a problem, obviously wouldn’t know without being able to see it for myself. If you were to contact a supplier or look up on google, a high outlet toilet, you would probably find one. In my opinion, I would always try gravity systems first (less cost and complications generally).

 

[Tim S]

What's the other side of the internal wall on the right that creates a dog leg in the bathroom?

 

[Welder]

Personally I'd look at a 900 square shower in the alcove - no bath. Build the end wall out to 900mm which would then leave room for a soil pipe from the wc mounted where the bath end is. The sink could go along the LH wall. By using a Novellini bifold door (they fold ALL the way back) access to the shower is full and free.

 

[Lucy387]

What's the other side of the internal wall on the right that creates a dog leg in the bathroom?

It's the staircase, sadly no scope to knock through.

 

[WC1]

If budget is tight then be sure to factor in the cost of calling a plumber out whenever someone even gives the saniflo a dirty look and it gets blocked... (many plumbers won't touch them when they're blocked - which is understandable) 😱

 

[Ben-gee]

Back to my first point, you just need a decent designer or experienced bathroom fitter to help you. It really is possible to sort this without a macerator.
Whereabouts are you?

 

[rpm]

If budget is tight then be sure to factor in the cost of calling a plumber out whenever someone even gives the saniflo a dirty look and it gets blocked... (many plumbers won't touch them when they're blocked - which is understandable) 😱

Now you're scaremongering the op! Depending on which make and model, possibly the hardness of local water, the installation and not asking it to deal with items it wasn't designed for it could last 15yrs without trouble.

 

[Lucy387]

So is there a way of having the layout I want and having the toilet plumbed in without a macerator?

The current problem is that the new loo and the existing outlet are the same height so the plumber said it wouldn’t create any fall. He said to find a toilet with a high outlet (at least 220mm), but I couldn’t find one despite asking the local suppliers, so then he said a macerator would be my best option.
But what if a new hole is made into the soil stack, say 2 or 3 inches lower than it currently is, and running an internal soil pipe to it? That would give me a fall of 2 or 3 inches across 2.5m. Would that be possible?

 

[rpm]

Put pan on plinth? Better than using a macerator.

 

[Burger]

So is there a way of having the layout I want and having the toilet plumbed in without a macerator?

The current problem is that the new loo and the existing outlet are the same height so the plumber said it wouldn’t create any fall. He said to find a toilet with a high outlet (at least 220mm), but I couldn’t find one despite asking the local suppliers, so then he said a macerator would be my best option.
But what if a new hole is made into the soil stack, say 2 or 3 inches lower than it currently is, and running an internal soil pipe to it? That would give me a fall of 2 or 3 inches across 2.5m. Would that be possible?

It would be possible, but obviously need to repair old hole then. Your plumber has probably already done this, but have you measured the floor to centre of existing soil pipe and toilet and your new one?

 

[Lucy387]

It would be possible, but obviously need to repair old hole then. Your plumber has probably already done this, but have you measured the floor to centre of existing soil pipe and toilet and your new one?

Yes, both are 180mm.

 

[Ben-gee]

It really is simple to sort.
1) raise the pan outlet height.
Or
2) lower the soil connection height.

1) is achieved by building a plinth.
In your case I would raise the whole floor from half way along the corridor part. One step should suffice , the wc and basin would be on this raised floor - it would also have the effect on making it easier to get into the bath.

2) yes this can be done, obviously we can’t see how in your case but trust me it can. That’s why I keep saying you need a decent experienced set of eyes on the job.

I have just lowered the branch on a soil stack by 1 1/2 “ to give s proper fall on a lavatory. The lady has lived there for 35 years, had this lavatory changed three times and it’s never flushed properly. She can’t believe how it is now , and all for the sake of a days labour.

 

[WC1]

Hi @rpm sorry if it came across as just scaremongering ,was meant to be advisory. Op stated they were could not afford professional advise which may help them avoid a sani. My point was that this is possibly a false economy. As for sani blocking easily, you are correct they only usually block when badly installed or abused. I find it often takes several "incidents" before the message hits home and people stop putting tampons, qtips, wet wipes etc down the loo and this is a cost to be factored in. Anyway, "onwards and upwards" as they say (saniflo related humour)😀

 

[Rob Foster]

Most plumbing components go wrong at some point. Electro mechanical devices usually the
worst. Gravity is free and rarely goes wrong. I would re design your bathroom along these principles...Complicated is easy...simple is hard. Especially when your macerator jams up when the blades go blunt or the lecky goes off. These units are meant for supplementary bogs not the main one..install at your peril. Also purchase a good pair of gauntlets and nose pegs to clear the thing out when it does go LALA. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[rpm]

................................................................ Especially when your macerator jams up when the blades go blunt or the lecky goes off. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Blunt blades Haha. Think about it, what inside a domestic macerator could cause Stainless steel to blunt?

 

[Rob Foster]

Blunt blades Haha. Think about it, what inside a domestic macerator could cause Stainless steel to blunt?

Even stainless steel knives used in kitchens need to be re faced
some sanitary products can be quite wearing and some things have plastic in them. let alone the things that go into bogs that should not. I agree in an ideal world these products are ok but
...our experience of fixing them in rentals is not a happy experience. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Ben-gee]

Rpm is it the case that a domestic property HAS to have at least one toilet that is not a macerator?
I seem to remember reading this somewhere, if it isn’t a rule it certainly should be!

 

[rpm]

You are correct.

 

[rpm]

Even stainless steel knives used in kitchens need to be re faced
some sanitary products can be quite wearing and some things have plastic in them. let alone the things that go into bogs that should not. I agree in an ideal world these products are ok but
...our experience of fixing them in rentals is not a happy experience. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

None of which you talk of should be flushed away macerator or not.

 

[Rob Foster]

None of which you talk of should be flushed away macerator or not.

The reality is people do put the wrong stuff down a bog and expect it to work like a normal one, and often its up to the householder, their engineer, etc to
get the thing back working after its jammed ..I agree with you about the wrong stuff.

Reality and theory are different..we have a lady we put a saniflo in for under her stairs years ago, as she only uses it there has never been a problem
but ...these units are problematic in my opinion
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Ben-gee]

Hi Lucy,

Do you have another lavatory in the property?

 

[Lucy387]

Hi Lucy,

Do you have another lavatory in the property?

I do, yes, a small cloakroom downstairs.

 

[Ben-gee]

That’s good.

I think you just need a fitter with more experience/ ability to think outside the box to suss this out for you.

Really, don’t go with a macerator.

Where are you located?

 

[Robert Bell]

I thought you had to have a soil piped toilet as a main if you wre to have a macerator installed by regs.

 

[Robert Bell]

I thought you had to have a soil piped toilet as a main if you wre to have a macerator installed by regs.

Scratch that just read further down.

 

[Rob Foster]

I thought you had to have a soil piped toilet as a main if you wre to have a macerator installed by regs.

Hi Robert, If you look above this question was put up but not answered. By the way why have you covered your face with
Nutella ? my mrs likes marmite
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Robert Bell]

Hi Robert, If you look above this question was put up but not answered. By the way why have you covered your face with
Nutella ? my mrs likes marmite
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Nutella brings all the girls to the yard.

 

[Rob Foster]

Nutella brings all the girls to the yard.

Even Kellis...wow my mind boggles

 

[Burger]

Even Kellis...wow my mind boggles

Thought that was milkshakes?

 

[Rob Foster]

Thought that was milkshakes?

maybe chocolate milkshakes
I never had the privilege , I might try marmite smoothies
who knows....and this thread is about macerators so I fink
we should stay on track otherwise it might get messy
centralheatking

 

[rpm]

Hi Robert, If you look above this question was put up but not answered.
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Thought it was answered Rob. A macerator toilet can not be the only toilet in the property. There must be one on mains drainage.

 

[Rob Foster]

Thought it was answered Rob. A macerator toilet can not be the only toilet in the property. There must be one on mains drainage.

I know but was referring nutella man to the preceeding
chking

 

[Lucy387]

That’s good.

I think you just need a fitter with more experience/ ability to think outside the box to suss this out for you.

Really, don’t go with a macerator.

Where are you located?

Thanks, I’m starting to understand that there are better options to having a macerator. I’m in South Wales.

 

[Rob Foster]

Thanks, I’m starting to understand that there are better options to having a macerator. I’m in South Wales.

Yes Lucy ..a gravity system properly designed and installed will always beat a macerator, people do install them because they Really have no other option ..you do, re post with a diagram and we will help you get it right...Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Burger]

Finally.... a

 

[Lucy387]

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. I am really grateful. I have posted a diagram of my ideal set up for my bathroom including dimensions and some details.
I have already purchased the suite so I would really like to make this layout work if at all possible.

Is it possible for the internal soil pipe to run as diagrammed in my picture (blue line)? It would be almost a 3m pipe with 3 bends. Is this possible to do without the risk of blockages?
Also, is there a standard ratio of fall that I would need to have? How would I work out how much to raise the toilet or lower the waste outlet?

Many, many thanks!

 

[Riley]

Are you doing this install ?

 

[Ben-gee]

Is there any reason you can't run the soil pipe on the outside?
Then you wouldn't have to raise to lavatory at all?

 

[Lucy387]

Is there any reason you can't run the soil pipe on the outside?
Then you wouldn't have to raise to lavatory at all?

Well, if it went on the outside then it would have to go across the front of my house and I don’t particularly want it to do that.

 

[Lucy387]

Are you doing this install ?

No, I know little to nothing about plumbing. But I want to get as much advice and information as I can because I don’t like being clueless about these things. The best quote I received for doing the job was from the person who advised the macerator. Feel like I am going round in circles

 

[Ben-gee]

It therefore wasn't the best quote!!!

 

[Ben-gee]

Is your house brick, or painted?
On the pavement or set-back?

So many things to consider, without being there it is a bit hard to advise properly.

If painted, paint all the pipework and it will not be too noticeable?

 

[Ben-gee]

In answer to your question, the fall on soil pipe should be 18mm per metre .

(ok ok it can be more, upto 80/90mm - but for these purposes use 18mm/m)

 

[Aire]

Well, if it went on the outside then it would have to go across the front of my house and I don’t particularly want it to do that.

Is your current soil pipe internal?

 

[Lucy387]

Is your current soil pipe internal?

No, the existing soil pipe goes straight out the side of the house. But it is not in the same place as where I want the new toilet to be

 

[Lucy387]

Is your house brick, or painted?
On the pavement or set-back?

So many things to consider, without being there it is a bit hard to advise properly.

If painted, paint all the pipework and it will not be too noticeable?

It is rendered and set back from the road. However, I want to avoid having a pipe running across the front if at all possible.

I would rather have a macerator inside than have a soil pipe running straight across the front of the house.

 

[Ben-gee]

Ok.
Do you have any idea of what it is like to live with a macerator?

I'm out.

 

[Rob Foster]

Well, if it went on the outside then it would have to go across the front of my house and I don’t particularly want it to do that.

agree that is yuck in my opinion
chking

 

[Aire]

Any reason why it can't be run this way? Where the pipe exits the wall under the bath, run it as low to the floor as possible then it will have a good fall from the toilet. 1 external 90° bend towards the stack and then tee in. Or am I missing something.

Also the measurement for your bath is 1150 but the opening is 1050. Are you sure the bath will fit.

 

[rpm]

I'm out.

I stopped using that saying since a **** of a OP couldn`t see reason for the trees and came back with "Drama queen!" 😀

Has the idea of new underground pipe to the drains been suggested?

 

[WC1]

Ok.
Do you have any idea of what it is like to live with a macerator?

I'm out.

Don't forget the noise, especially when you have a dripping tap or little bit of internal overflow and it kicks in every hour or 2 - especially enjoyable overnight I gather from customers... 😱

 

[rpm]

Don't forget the noise, especially when you have a dripping tap or little bit of internal overflow and it kicks in every hour or 2 - especially enjoyable overnight I gather from customers... 😱

Toilet only so no taps connected and consider the pump activating from an internal overflow as a warning alarm to get it fixed before the next metred water bill arrives. 😉

 

[Rob Foster]

I consider that Lucy has had all the current available info from us re macerators. We have little to add now SHE needs to make a decision of her own based on the best unbiased advice available in UK
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[rpm]

I consider that Lucy has had all the current available info from us re macerators. We have little to add now SHE needs to make a decision of her own based on the best unbiased advice available in UK
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

Don`t think anybody has covered how to reduce the sound level when it is operating. 🙁

 

[Lucy387]

Thanks to you all. You’ve been incredibly informative and given me a lot to think about. I hadn’t realised that macerators were such troublesome things to have, but judging by the comments and suggestions, I will certainly heed your warnings and avoid having one if at all possible!

Perhaps I need to go back to the plumber with a few alternative solutions (thanks to yourselves) and come up with a better plan.