mind changers?

obseen16 · Feb 8, 2011

Hi guys, been dealing with a particularly fussy customer. weve done a mid range bathroom for her and through out the whole thing weve had to move things change things re silicon things etc, not because we have poor standards but because the customer keeps changing his mind. he told us to fit the sink and vanity unit that HE supplied, so we did, when he came home that night he wasnt happy with the seal we did as it was almost 1 mm thicker at one end of the worktop than the other end, we had to lower the mirror which he told us to put so his eyeline was at the centre of the mirror, but when he saw it he wanted it lowered. 7

its driving us mad, its not like were just throwing it in there, we allowed one week to do everything from rip out to tiling fitting plastering boarding etc, so far weve worked from 7-7 almost every day for the past 7 days and were still not quite finished because he keeps changing how he wants things. we now have 2 bathroom jobs to juggle aswell as the little inbetween jobs to get done.

some jobs are just not worth doing, wish customers could have neon signs above their front doors saying "im a cheap skate" "i cant make my mind up and ill make you re do everything twice before i decide it looked better the first way"

ahhhhh anyways

Rant over, 🙄

dontknowitall · Feb 8, 2011

I'm learning quickly. Saw one recently who doesn't want a radiator downstairs because the heat will vanish upstairs and he used to do his own plumbing and has ordered everything off eBay.

After discussing an estimate it's turned into a quote for about 4 times the price with loads of terms and conditions attached like if I need to travel to purchase any materials it's 50p per mile and £10 per half hour, etc, etc.

I'm hoping he doesn't take me up on the quote and finds someone else!

obseen16 · Feb 8, 2011

tell ya what were thinking of getting the customers to give us heights and locations of all appliances and get them to sign it so that in future. when they moan the radiator is to perfectly level we can just say thats where you wanted it so itll cost u to move it now, lol. were not even making any money off this bathroom now cos its gone over on materials and labour time. id have been better off claimin jsa for the week

tamz · Feb 8, 2011

Did a bathroom job for an interior designer years back. Room being changed into a big bathroom. I was only piping and fitting the ware.
Was there for 2 and a half weeks. She changed her mind on the layout every morning. I wasn't too worried as she was told straight away it costs extra to move things and she was a good payer. Tiler had more trouble than me!
Got a few other jobs through her that she was in charge of and they were the same. All people who could afford to change their minds though.
Lost touch with her after she moved to England. Shame. Made a few quid through her.

dontknowitall · Feb 8, 2011

Ironically, if there's been room for error, I've always asked the customer to mark on the wall where they want things. Not sure where I learned that one but it's useful.

I hope you finish soon.

Looking on the brightside, you might get a recommendation from them and other people must be telling you how conscientious you are with your job if you keep working as you do to please customers.

Gray0689 · Feb 9, 2011

Give him a revised invoice with all the extras on It

Plumbstar Tom · Feb 9, 2011

yes or an extra invoice for the extra labour his has added on from your original quote

people are welcome to change their minds and often do but it comes at a price

I cant go macdonalds, order a big mac get it then decide after paying and receiving it i want a quarter pounder, if I do want one I have to fork out extrsa for it and do what I want with the big mac 🙂

IMHO

turnpin · Feb 9, 2011

"everything from rip out to tiling fitting plastering boarding etc, so far weve worked from 7-7 almost every day for the past 7 days and were still not quite finished because he keeps changing how he wants things. we now have 2 bathroom jobs to juggle aswell as the little inbetween jobs to get done".

Amazing... how on earth did you find the time to come on here😀😀😀 only kidding I know how you feel done a few kitchens years ago same story always changing their minds just when you thought will have it finished 1/2 day left on job bang so they decide to inform you something`s not quite right.Have stayed to 2.00a.m to finish a job rather than have to go back and give them opportunity to change mind again as stated before charge for extras upfront as this slows rate changes are thrown at you🙂regards turnpin

dontknowitall · Feb 9, 2011

2:00am ... WOW!

I bet they regretted changing their minds for that one and will be super careful in future!!

stevetheplumber · Feb 9, 2011

nearly as bad as the customer i have just been to see he wants a price to fit a bath or maybe a shower and he might want tiles of he might not i said to give me a cal when he had made his mind up

Dannypipe · Feb 9, 2011

Customers who change there mind all the time are HELL.

I'm frank with them now and tell them it will probably cost more. I also put a note in my standard T & C's.

mredd · Feb 10, 2011

I made the mistake of asking the man of the house to mark the centres on the wall for the toilet and vanity...
The lady of the house comes home from work. "oh no, that just will not do. It needs to move over two inches". Numptys.

stevetheplumber · Feb 10, 2011

one plumber offered to put wheels on a rad and pipe it up with hose pipe eo the custard could move it around
i think it had been on every wall in the room

dontknowitall · Feb 10, 2011

stevetheplumber said:
one plumber offered to put wheels on a rad and pipe it up with hose pipe eo the custard could move it around
i think it had been on every wall in the room

Excellent idea.

Which leads me on to thinking that if we put are customers on wheels, then when they start pestering we can push them out of the room.

Then, of course, there are those customers who can't do enough to be pleasant and are really friendly and understand that some jobs take a while to do, give you coffee without asking, leave you in the house alone, tip you, etc.

I've two opposites at the moment. I spent around 5 hours with today's customer then a near 2 hour round trip for shopping for more materials. Unfortunately I just didn't have time to do this before I started. He let me start 3 weeks late and is quite happy for me to turn up when I can just so long as I'm not holding him up with the renovation. His bill for today's labour is £90.

Tomorrow I'm off to change a kitchen tap for someone who's been pestering me (and my wife) all day. Hope to take an hour but the bill will be at least £150, possibly £175. The next job will be a couple of taps to change for another customer and his bill will be around £75.

Trouble is if someone calls out of the blue and asks, "How much do you charge?" I have to think really quickly then write it down. It was much easier last year when I had two simple rates.

Dannypipe · Feb 10, 2011

Stick with standard rates, otherwise its just a headache.

Everyone pays the same with me, whether they're rich or poor, young or old. My rate is ALWAYS the same.

It just saves me hassle and it's fair.

stevetheplumber · Feb 10, 2011

the bigger the house the more theyll quible i always up estimates to suit the property
they didnt get a big house by wasting money

Avatar · Feb 11, 2011

I have two rates based on the cutomer: standard and nightmare (+50-100%)!!!

I hate people using MY money as a form of blackmail to get me to 'finish this' or 'move that'. In the future on big jobs they can pay me on a 'week in advance' rate . . . .

You always get someone holding out on giving you £500 cause the tiolet seat needs replacing . . .

obseen16 · Feb 12, 2011

this customer is now really taking the mickey. he said we would paint the ceiling. urm no we didnt, he wants a new worktop as the one he supplied has a light brown line where the side strip meets the worktop, he wants us to re tile around the window because one tile is 1mm out of line (took him 3 weeks to notice). ive never ever had one this awkward before, should i threaten to start charging labour, we upgraded his shower cable from 6mm to 10mm for free to keep him happy even though he told us it was 100% 10mm cable so you wont need to check that. it took us a day to run it in.
yesterday he had a small list of four things that were niggling him, today he had a full a4 sheet top to bottom with tiny little things that even we couldnt see like the beading at one corner moved 1mm when he pressed it in a specific place (right at the top by the ceiling) i dont think ill ever be finished there if this carries on, so far weve done 13 days there and have earned about £35 per day because of him and his magnifying glass plus all the fuel were using going back and forth. i think it would be cheaper for us to just forget about it but damn it my missus wants a valentines present.

Bartdude · Feb 12, 2011

How much does he owe you?

Why don't you make a list of all the extra work you've done and present that to him? It sounds like you've gone beyond the call of duty and it's only right you get paid for the extra work,although you'll probably have to compromise a bit.

obseen16 · Feb 12, 2011

original quote was for 1500 including labour and fittings, that was for 5 days start to finish. extras we havent charged him for: re running 10mm cable from shower to board Labour 240 Parts £60, altering the sink and worktop labour £60, moving cupboard higher up the wall and a few other tiny little things - £60, Plastering the fresh plasterboard Inside a cupboard (normally just paint it no plaster needed) £60, the things we are due to do will probably cost us about 240 to do in labour so in total hes had £720 worth of free work out of us for things that are so tiny even we couldnt see them, id be better off stacking tins in tescos.

if it was an expensive bathroom i wouldnt mind, but he bought all the gear for about £1200 and the tiles were from B&Q for christs sake. i cant make a cheap bathroom look like king tuts ensuite no matter how hard i try, i was actually really impressed with how good we managed to make it look.

tamz · Feb 12, 2011

Sounds like he is ripping the pysh but you will need to deal with it. You just need to learn to be smarter with your mouth.
For future reference, when you do a quote put everything in writing you are quoting for. State that anything additional not on the quote will be charged at £X/hr. If they are supplying the materials and anything is missing or damaged which causes any holdups to your schedule, same thing £x/hr
It is nice to be nice but you will come across customers who's mission seems to be to get out of paying something or make your life a misery. Don't be intimidated by them.

turnpin · Feb 12, 2011

Tell him you need a draw down off the job as the job has over run[his fault but don`t mention this at the moment]get as much as you can then pull off the job and then say you cannot afford to come back until he has squared up his account in cash it may be time to cut your losses good luck and keep us informed🙂regards turnpin

dontknowitall · Feb 12, 2011

Horrible situation and tricky to leave with everyone happy.

I've had one or two jobs like this and have kept going - eventually I'm allowed to go. If you do everything the customer asks it does gain you one thing ... that the customer has no excuses not to pay you AND you can leave with a clean conscience that you've done your best to do things to the customer's wishes.

I had a job recently and phoned a plumbing friend of mine. He told me I was not leaving the job until I'd finished no matter how long it takes you. If you leave your reputation will spread quickly. I also got the impression that if I did stop then he wouldn't work with me or help me again.

Then he said, "We've all been there. Just treat it as education and experience and make sure you learn from it."

I found that really good advice.

Also remember that most of your customers are nice people to work for (some exceptionally pleasant and generous). There are bad apples in every part of life.

I do agree that this customer seems to be particularly picky and reading between the lines it looks as if he's looking for an excuse not to pay. My instinct tells me that I'd keep your extra work as ammunition for payment and not to mention this until things start to be messy (if they do).

Grit your teeth and hope it's over by the end of next week!!

Chin up!!!

PlumbBobBob · Feb 12, 2011

totally agree with dkia just ride the storm keeping the extra work as ammunition if there are any problems.

Avatar · Feb 13, 2011

You have to cover yourself though - I do agree about weathering the storm as well!

You may have to distinguish bettween:

A) something which isn't installed correctly or finsihed, and obviously you need to sort

B) something which is installed ok, but the custard wants to change (this is when you have to put your foot down!)

Giving out freebies usually comes back and bites you on the bum! I have fallen into that trap on my present job. You do it for 'free' and then you are being demanded to do more, or such like. In my book, never give free items of work.

Really you have to assess the nightmare factor both at the quoting stage of a job, and when it has just started. If you get the slightest whiff that there is going to be extra work items beyond the scope of your quote, then you have to make this clear on the day you start.

Once you get near the end of a job, you become more and more at the mercy of the customer, crazy or not . . .

Dannypipe · Feb 13, 2011

Customers! Who needs em? Oh yeah!

Its very tricky, if things are wrong, then you MUST put them right, regardless of how cheap the materials are, it shoudn't reflect on the finish of your fit.

I feel for you though, and have been there. I spend a long time making sure every part of my quote is detailed, and then in my terms I announce that work outside of this quote can be completed at my hourly rate.

As soon as work arrises which is outside of the quote, I flag it up.

Why did you run a new cable free of charge? It set a president that you could be mugged off. Sorry to be so blunt. You really should have flagged this up, and said,

"Look this cable needs uprating, otherwise we can't install the shower. Its not detailed in our quote. You seemed sure that it was 10mm...but no matter its no ones fault. We'll do the work as quickly as we can and record the time it takes us. Also we can buy the cable with our trade discounts, but will need reimbursment for it'".

Then they know where they stand.