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nems1982
How would I be able to tell?
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View the thread, titled "MORE problems with Baxi Bermuda 552!!! Help" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
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How would I be able to tell?
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holls1234
It is ok for you to comment and we are not allowed to defend ourselves? I have spoken to the agent who confirmed that he was going to send out a handyman to have a look at the shower, but you said not to bother and you did it yourselves which cost in the region of £10 and he asked you to send the invoice in and that he would pay it (which he has never received)!!
The service done in October is the paperwork that confirms that the vent is within 90% of the required size which makes it not 'at risk' status!!
Also I have been advised today by the heating company that it was you that was abusive to the gas safe engineer who came out to assess the vent for repair as he didn't back up what you were saying.
If you do not want people to reply to threads you should not have been putting loads of details about them on the internet!!!!
The service done in October is the paperwork that confirms that the vent is within 90% of the required size which makes it not 'at risk' status!!
Also I have been advised today by the heating company that it was you that was abusive to the gas safe engineer who came out to assess the vent for repair as he didn't back up what you were saying.
If you do not want people to reply to threads you should not have been putting loads of details about them on the internet!!!!
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holls1234
Not as far as I am aware, it isn't ducted
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nems1982
That wasn't actually what I was saying, I feel it more appropriate given that you are our landlord that this is discussed in private.
As I said the details were put on here with the view to gaining so advice.
The handyman did come out to us. His name is Adam and he will have a copy of the job as proof that he did come out to quote the job for the agent. We discussed how much the job would cost. I had already been advised by the agent that you were unwilling to spend any money at the time as a result of the discussion with the agent I asked Adam for some advice about what sort of fitting I should buy after which I spent just under £40 on the new fitting for which I still have the receipt.
I can assure you that I was not abuse to the heating engineer. The engineer did not look at the boiler and had no idea what size or type of boiler he was dealing with therefore unqualified at that point to determine whether the vent was too small or not. We were later told by the agent that the company had admitted the vent was too small and offered you a quote for the work. I did not argue with him, the engineer was affronted because I happened to know more about the situation at that point than he did. Not because I am trained but because I bothered to glean all the information before forming an opinion.
I would like to add that responding to this thread in this way is pointless as since it was first posted we have not only had a carbon moxoide leak as a result of the poor ventilation but we have also been without heating for 2 weeks. Perhaps you would like to address those issues in public as well.
Naomi
As I said the details were put on here with the view to gaining so advice.
The handyman did come out to us. His name is Adam and he will have a copy of the job as proof that he did come out to quote the job for the agent. We discussed how much the job would cost. I had already been advised by the agent that you were unwilling to spend any money at the time as a result of the discussion with the agent I asked Adam for some advice about what sort of fitting I should buy after which I spent just under £40 on the new fitting for which I still have the receipt.
I can assure you that I was not abuse to the heating engineer. The engineer did not look at the boiler and had no idea what size or type of boiler he was dealing with therefore unqualified at that point to determine whether the vent was too small or not. We were later told by the agent that the company had admitted the vent was too small and offered you a quote for the work. I did not argue with him, the engineer was affronted because I happened to know more about the situation at that point than he did. Not because I am trained but because I bothered to glean all the information before forming an opinion.
I would like to add that responding to this thread in this way is pointless as since it was first posted we have not only had a carbon moxoide leak as a result of the poor ventilation but we have also been without heating for 2 weeks. Perhaps you would like to address those issues in public as well.
Naomi
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holls1234
The carbon monoxide leak was as a result of a broken valve which has since been replaced, and as advised to yourselves by BG it was not to do with the vent, which as I keep stating is within 90% of the requirement which as mentioned in the regulations brought in during 2008 means it is not necessary for an 'at risk' notice to be issued which is why we are making complaints to British Gas.
We understand your worry after the faulty valve, but nobody can help it if a boiler breaks down and we have put a BG policy into place which covers all gas, electrical and plumbing problems with a 24/7 breakdown line for the tenants convenience.
We have never once told the agent that we weren't willing to pay for any faults/breakdowns that may occur and if you are saying that is what he has said then perhaps you should take it up with him, as he is denying it to us.
We have been told that you are only without heating as you refuse to turn the boiler on. I can understand your worry, but BG confirmed that the ventilation wasn't the problem and as previously mentioned we are making a major complaint to BG as they issued the incorrect documents to you.
If you were worried, perhaps getting an independant gas safe engineer to issue you with a report to confirm your opinion that this should be 'at risk' would have been the best option, then you would have had no opposition at all, we would have had the remedial work done immediately and refunded the cost of your report.
But it is too late now isn't it.
We understand your worry after the faulty valve, but nobody can help it if a boiler breaks down and we have put a BG policy into place which covers all gas, electrical and plumbing problems with a 24/7 breakdown line for the tenants convenience.
We have never once told the agent that we weren't willing to pay for any faults/breakdowns that may occur and if you are saying that is what he has said then perhaps you should take it up with him, as he is denying it to us.
We have been told that you are only without heating as you refuse to turn the boiler on. I can understand your worry, but BG confirmed that the ventilation wasn't the problem and as previously mentioned we are making a major complaint to BG as they issued the incorrect documents to you.
If you were worried, perhaps getting an independant gas safe engineer to issue you with a report to confirm your opinion that this should be 'at risk' would have been the best option, then you would have had no opposition at all, we would have had the remedial work done immediately and refunded the cost of your report.
But it is too late now isn't it.
Shine a torch down the vent in side or outside. you should not be able to see the floor void, just ducting.
If the vent is venting in to a floor void ie under the house, it needs to be ducted to the vent on the outside of the property
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holls1234
If you would like to discuss this further, please feel free to get my email address from the agent and I will happily discuss what we have been told and what we have said in response.
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holls1234
The vent is not through the floor it is through the wall in the room with the boiler.
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nems1982
Neither we nor BG said that the valve was the only issue that is your interpretation. The vent is too small and I understand that is why you are arranging for it to be resized now. If you are still under the impression that there is no problem with the vent then why are you having the work done?
We did not have a problem paying for the shower fitting and doing the work as we believed that we would be staying here for at least the next 2 years and felt it was a small price to pay for maintaining a good relationship with you. That is why I have not submitted the receipt to the agent.
The boiler has been isolated and as such we could not turn it on even if we wanted to. Due to the lack of ventilation it has been deemed at risk and a warning label has been fitted to the gas heater in front of the boiler. You may continue to pursue the complaint to BG however you have 3 experts including an independent company telling you that the vent is too small. Surely for the sake of your tenants safety and to ease their concerns it would have been better to pay the £150 and get the work done.
We felt it was unfair of you to ask us to pay for the work to be done and that is why we instructed the agent back in December to look for a new property for us.
We are very sad that we are having to leave the property, but we have been left with very little choice. The house is not safe in its current state and we have our young children to think of.
We did not have a problem paying for the shower fitting and doing the work as we believed that we would be staying here for at least the next 2 years and felt it was a small price to pay for maintaining a good relationship with you. That is why I have not submitted the receipt to the agent.
The boiler has been isolated and as such we could not turn it on even if we wanted to. Due to the lack of ventilation it has been deemed at risk and a warning label has been fitted to the gas heater in front of the boiler. You may continue to pursue the complaint to BG however you have 3 experts including an independent company telling you that the vent is too small. Surely for the sake of your tenants safety and to ease their concerns it would have been better to pay the £150 and get the work done.
We felt it was unfair of you to ask us to pay for the work to be done and that is why we instructed the agent back in December to look for a new property for us.
We are very sad that we are having to leave the property, but we have been left with very little choice. The house is not safe in its current state and we have our young children to think of.
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nems1982
We were told today that you had responded to my email were told that it would be sent onto us as yet we have had no reply. If you would like to email me your response I think that would be the best place to start.
Naomi
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holls1234
We actually authorised for the work to be done on the Thursday after the valve was replaced, as that was when the agent told us that you didn't want to turn it back on as were still worried. I think that as it is an open flue back boiler that you haven't understood what happens if the valve breaks. On an open flue boiler the C02 fumes are ommitted into the room where the boiler is which is what set off your alarm, unlike a combi boiler which would ommit the fumes outside.
It isn't our interpretation at all it is what BG and the other engineers have said that it is not 'at risk' and falls within the requirement under the new legislation, however to avoid this ridiculous problem of BG issuing incorrect documentation we decided to make it (the very small amount) bigger which we originally felt as we were told it wasn't a risk would only serve to make the room colder.
We would never have let or expected you to pay for any repair to the shower fitting and had we been asked would have authorised it immediately.
We also NEVER asked you to pay for the replacement vent it was the agent that called asking us to give permission for you to do it as he said you wanted to!!
Also, the agent hasn't mentioned that you are still using him to find a property in fact has given the opposite impression and never mentioned that that is what you wanted to do in December. In fact we haven't heard anything since he asked us for permission for you to do the work in November until Monday 20th February after the valve went when we were only told that BG were coming to fix it the next day.
I think that perhaps you are being told 1 thing and we are being told something completely different.
I do not have any contact details for you to discuss this further.
It isn't our interpretation at all it is what BG and the other engineers have said that it is not 'at risk' and falls within the requirement under the new legislation, however to avoid this ridiculous problem of BG issuing incorrect documentation we decided to make it (the very small amount) bigger which we originally felt as we were told it wasn't a risk would only serve to make the room colder.
We would never have let or expected you to pay for any repair to the shower fitting and had we been asked would have authorised it immediately.
We also NEVER asked you to pay for the replacement vent it was the agent that called asking us to give permission for you to do it as he said you wanted to!!
Also, the agent hasn't mentioned that you are still using him to find a property in fact has given the opposite impression and never mentioned that that is what you wanted to do in December. In fact we haven't heard anything since he asked us for permission for you to do the work in November until Monday 20th February after the valve went when we were only told that BG were coming to fix it the next day.
I think that perhaps you are being told 1 thing and we are being told something completely different.
I do not have any contact details for you to discuss this further.
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nems1982
Please see the message I have sent you through this forum.
Naomi
Naomi
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PlumbBobBob
just to interject here you can pm each other on here just click on the other's user name and click on private message.
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PlumbBobBob
beat me to it lol
if you are with bg just ring them up raise a complaint with them and get the vent size confirmed- the size for a 552 is 90cm2 from mi's
and as a side note- an open flue boiler takes the fumes away up the chimney not into the room, it takes combustion air from the room only which is why its important to have a correctly sized vent
and as a side note- an open flue boiler takes the fumes away up the chimney not into the room, it takes combustion air from the room only which is why its important to have a correctly sized vent
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Billy Bob Bob
well having read through this entire thread and commenting as a qualified gas engineer with years of experience
what valve can break on a open flued boiler and emit fumes into the room?
this sounds implausible
secondly this vent sizing debacle should have been sorted long ago and if i was in rented accommodation and i had been issued 3 AR reports gas safe would have been involved long ago,however i deal with tenants on a daily basis there are two sides to every story
thirdly this site is not the place for arguments if there is any doubt in a appliance being safe and contradicting comments have been issued by both independent GSR engineers and BG ring gas safe,but a warning to the letting agent/landlord you will be prosecuted under GUISR IF PROBLEMS ARE FOUND AT THE PROPERTY,and so will the gsr who issued the cp12 so i would advise you get your facts very clear before going down this route
what valve can break on a open flued boiler and emit fumes into the room?
this sounds implausible
secondly this vent sizing debacle should have been sorted long ago and if i was in rented accommodation and i had been issued 3 AR reports gas safe would have been involved long ago,however i deal with tenants on a daily basis there are two sides to every story
thirdly this site is not the place for arguments if there is any doubt in a appliance being safe and contradicting comments have been issued by both independent GSR engineers and BG ring gas safe,but a warning to the letting agent/landlord you will be prosecuted under GUISR IF PROBLEMS ARE FOUND AT THE PROPERTY,and so will the gsr who issued the cp12 so i would advise you get your facts very clear before going down this route
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Reltub
Ive also just read through this thread and can't actually believe all this hassle has been caused by what im guessing is a slightly undersized vent. The reg's on the classification of vent sizes have recently changed, but IMO the system has obviously been like this for many years with no problems and is only being raised now because of the changes in regs. This job to make it bigger would take no time at all wither chop it out so you can fit a 100 cm2 vent cover and sleeve or re core and install a vent into that 30 mins if that through most bricks. £150 seems a bit excessive.
Also dont see what valve can break to cause a co leak, even if there is poor flame picture due to lack of ventilation ( which i highly doubt ) the flue should be doing its job and this is the most important safety aspect.
Seems like a hell of alot of stress for a 30min job tbh and any1 can do it, get the landlord round with his hammer and chisel - job done.
Also dont see what valve can break to cause a co leak, even if there is poor flame picture due to lack of ventilation ( which i highly doubt ) the flue should be doing its job and this is the most important safety aspect.
Seems like a hell of alot of stress for a 30min job tbh and any1 can do it, get the landlord round with his hammer and chisel - job done.
having read this thread i cant decide if were dealing with the tennant or landlord from hell but the quote above did make me wonder about the logic behind the decision to turn it on when you seem convinced it is dangerous given a choice of being cold or dieing id reach for a sweat shirt every time
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nems1982
Its kind of besides the point now guys. We've moved. Please try not to discourage other people from seeking help in the future by questioning their motives, neither the landlord or we as tenants wanted to be in this situation, both parties felt they were right and couldn't understand why the other couldn't see that. The facts in this case are we wanted the vent to be resized because we were told it was too small, the landlord felt it was unnecessary as it was safe when they had been living there. Both parties believed they were right. The situation changed when we had a Carbon monoxide leak. Since we moved I believe the landlord has taken advice from another engineer the result of which I can't tell you as I said we are no longer living there.
What matters is the situation will be resolved either way before another tenant moves in.
Please don't make light of this situation, there was no need to try and determine who was the bad guy. This thread was created so that I could get some advice from the professionals, I'm happy to say many of you very kind people have been great and offered some brilliant advice. Thank you, and in the nicest possible way I hope we don't have to speak again in the near future. Naomi xx
What matters is the situation will be resolved either way before another tenant moves in.
Please don't make light of this situation, there was no need to try and determine who was the bad guy. This thread was created so that I could get some advice from the professionals, I'm happy to say many of you very kind people have been great and offered some brilliant advice. Thank you, and in the nicest possible way I hope we don't have to speak again in the near future. Naomi xx
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