Quooker...is 110 degree water really ok?

[windyboy]

G3: ‘A hot water system that has a hot water storage vessel shall incorporate precautions to: (a) prevent the temperature of the water stored in the vessel at any time exceeding 100˚C’

Quooker: ‘The water is heated to 110˚C in the Quooker tank…When the water flows out of the boiling-water tap, the water cools from 110˚C to 100˚C and boils.

I like the idea of water cooling to boiling point. But seriously, am I missing something or do Quooker just ignore the Building Regs? (and the Water Regs.)

 

[snowhead]

G3: ‘A hot water system that has a hot water storage vessel shall incorporate precautions

Quooker, presumably, isn't a system it's a single outlet.
They've been in the U.K for over 10 years and Holland for 15 before that.
I would have thought someone would have brought up the issue, if there was one, before now.

 

[windyboy]

Maybe, but I'm not sure that the fact that there's only one tap stops it being a hot water system.

 

[rpm]

Doesn't come under G3 as there isn't a tank ?

 

[windyboy]

Why not?

 

[rpm]

Why not?

Not a storage system. ?

 

[windyboy]

3 litres of water at 110 degrees C (or 7 litres if you buy the big one). Surely that's a hot water storage system?

 

[Sharp Point]

Not a storage system. ?

 

[rpm]

View attachment 35081

Thanks for that and I take it back. Thought it was a instant flow through which seems daft now tbh.

 

[windyboy]

Not daft at all. I was talking to a guy who owns one today and asking him how it worked. He said that the Quooker guy told him that the tank was full of superheated steam and that cold water flowed through the steam and turned into boiling water. Scary stuff.

 

[rpm]

Not daft at all. I was talking to a guy who owns one today and asking him how it worked. He said that the Quooker guy told him that the tank was full of superheated steam and that cold water flowed through the steam and turned into boiling water. Scary stuff.

Guess I was halfway right then 😀

 

[windyboy]

🙂

 

[townfanjon]

I have customers that have these , I have never liked the idea.
Kettles , like garlic bread , they are the future !!!

 

[rpm]

I have customers that have these , I have never liked the idea.
Kettles , like garlic bread , they are the future !!!

I wouldn't have one, just something else to go wrong.

 

[SimonG]

Below 15 litres

 

[windyboy]

Yep. The one I saw today didn't even work that well. A dribble of sputtery water and a load of steam. It was bloody hot water, but that's about all you can say for it. If you were making a pot of tea you'd be standing there all day.

 

[windyboy]

I thought G3 was just about notification requirements? I can't find anything that says that the regs don't apply. Othwewise you could install anything.
I stand to be corrected on that though.

 

[Riley]

Isn’t that the idea that under 15l isn’t G3 notifianle

 

[windyboy]

Not notifiable, but I thought that the regs still applied.

 

[Rob Foster]

The answer is Wras if the device has been passed by a PAG at wras then it’s ok providing it has been installed according to its specification.
Then this needs to be re examined every 4 years , there are two testing houses Kiwa and NSF for this country who presentbto wras . Europe is different ..I know been there so
This device is deemed safe ..end of Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[windyboy]

I can't find a definitive answer on this but AFAIK Quookers are not WRAS approved.

 

[Sharp Point]

Doesn’t the quooker have the constant drip relief to the drain, to relieve the pressure some what? If so would that get WRAS approval due to water wastage?

I don’t know, just guessing.... I do a lot of that😉

 

[windyboy]

Yep, a regular drip out through the pressure relief valve on the supply pipe. I'm not sure that a drip would be a concern. More wasteful than a vessel I guess.

 

[rpm]

Below 15 litres

Thought that came down to 3 or 5L?

 

[Rob Foster]

I actually have severe doubts about quooker and it’s probably cheaper imitations available soon on eBay. Some kid is qoing to get badly burnt at some point it’s obvious. I looked at the fail safe and guess what ..you can all examine the specification and make your own judgement , I would not fit it under any circumstances no matter what it’s like throwing hot coals for puppies to chew on . Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

Doesn’t the quooker have the constant drip relief to the drain, to relieve the pressure some what? If so would that get WRAS approval due to water wastage?

I don’t know, just guessing.. I do a lot of that😉

Wras does not like any device that wastes water, u r correct

 

[windyboy]

Quooker website: 'The water is delivered in a fine aerated spray rather than a solid jet, ensuring that you are able to move your hands to safety in time.'

Maybe, but I can't find a video anywhere of someone doing that.

 

[snowhead]

Maybe, but I can't find a video anywhere of someone doing that.

Yes they did a video, I believe, but the Guy that put his hand under it is having trouble uploading the video for some reason 😵 (Allegedly)

 

[SimonG]

Thought that came down to 3 or 5L?

Need to get mine updated soon. So may have changed.

 

[king of pipes]

Got one to fit so will post a few pictures at a later date cheers kop

 

[Rob Foster]

Got one to fit so will post a few pictures at a later date cheers kop

View attachment 35085

You doing this for free KOP !
It says on advert ...he he

 

[Gareth Harris]

Do the installation instructions still tell you to pipe the expansion relief valve direct to drain. Direct connection to drain is a no no as well as storing water at over 100°C

 

[windyboy]

Basically you drill a hole in the sink waste pipe and screw in a fitting that comes with the tap. Then you connect the bottom of the tundish to the screwed-in fitting with a flexible hose, making sure there a U in it to get a seal.

 

[Stanios]

I think at 3 bar the boiling point of water is around 130-140c however if at any point this pressure drops (which I would image in does when you open the tap) the boiling temperature drops accordingly if pressure drops enough water will start turning to steam and expand quite quickly.
110c is just over 1 bar which is to say any pressure above atmospheric will stop water from boiling at 110c

 

[windyboy]

Water boils at 110 deg C at about 1.4 bar, so the pressure in the tank must be at least that. I guess that the sequence is that when you open the tap the pressure drops to atmospheric and the water coming up the spout boils. Cold water enters the tank and it heated. The pressure in the tank rises to mains pressure plus a bit for expansion, which will give you more than 1.4 bar. Then it sits at that pressure until someone opens the tap. Incidentally, the PRV setpoint is 8 bar.

 

[Rob Foster]

So in simple terms there is the equivalent of a high pressure steam engine installed in a domestic kitchen , ok never in mine or my customers ever
I have read enough , just to peel a tomato ..seen it in tv huh !
This is a great place to learn and contribute thank you all let’s keep it up
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Chuck]

A couple of posts seem to be mixing up absolute and gauge pressures.

The boiling point of water is 110°C at 1.4 bar (absolute) pressure. Most pressure gauges, PRVs, etc. on plumbing, and most plumbers, use 'gauge pressure', which is the pressure above the local atmospheric pressure, so they would indicate ca 0.4 bar..

FWIW, I've seen first hand some horrific burns caused by relatively small amounts of very hot (not even boiling) water, and these gadgets make me very uneasy.

 

[windyboy]

Chuck is correct. The references to pressure in my last post were sloppy 🙁.

 

[dan_the_plumber]

Less than 15L, no check valve? Is slowed to expand back into cold main? Then G3 wouldn’t apply.
Stupid idea though, especially if you’ve got kids!

 

[CJfxdb]

Doesn't come under G3 as there isn't a tank ?

Yes there is a tank

 

[windyboy]

NHBC position on boiling water taps:

Boiling Water Taps | NHBC

Boiling Water Taps: Guidance for compliance with NHBC Standards and Building Control

www.nhbc.co.uk

Basically, if you have a Quooker, you won't get NHBC sign off without formal relaxion of G3 by the local authority. I have no idea if that could be got.