syphonic toilet

[marc03]

Hi.
I've recently changed my gubbins of my toilet with a flapper ext only to find out I have a syphonic system 😡
My question is can I use a standard syphon with a syphon bomb I also may need to get a new syphon bomb too due to a slight crack.

Any advise will be appreciated :vanish:

I really don't want to be spending a fortune as a easy cheap job has already turned into a night mare :censored::censored:
Thanks

 

[kay-jay]

You could fix it but probably less hassle to get a cheap bog and replace it

 

[marc03]

I'd rather try and fix it. just need to find out if I can use standard Syphon Which also wouldn't cost to much.

 

[JCplumb]

You could fix it, but it's hassle, it will also be hassle next time it goes and the time after that. Parts will become rarer and more expensive too as time goes on.
You can get a new toilet for £50 from B and Poo that comes with the flush valve and filler in the price. I know which I'd choose.

 

[johnmcginty]

Yeah i'd do whatthe other guys sugessted and the a bomb probably wont fit in the bottom of the flapper anyway.

 

[SimonG]

Id stick with the syphonic toilet tbh. Far superior flush than the modern garbage.

New bomb. New syphon. Jobs a good one.

 

[marc03]

I don't really want to change the toilet but thanks for the opinions guys but one my current toilet goes with my bathroom suit and two after the nightmare I'm having changing guts of the bowl I dare not try changing the whole toilet if I can help it. So back to the original question will a syphon bomb fit and syphon?? Eg like there's syphones in b and q for under a tenner.

 

[rpm]

Sorry to butt in guys but can I warn all plumbers that macerators will not work correctly if fitted to these type of toilets.
Thank you.

 

[stevetheplumber]

yes standard syphon and a new bomb

 

[BLOD]

Sorry to butt in guys but can I warn all plumbers that macerators will not work correctly if fitted to these type of toilets.
Thank you.

please can you explain why ?

 

[rpm]

Yeah sure mate. As Simon G said the input of water is far superior and it too much too soon for the macerator to cope with. Even with a standard syphon valve I sometimes have to reduce the amount of water entering the pan > macerator when the customers complain that sometimes paper is left behind in the pan, it`s like a vortex effect.

 

[marc03]

Right your confusing me now what the he'll is a macerator? And why is it mentioned here is it something I need to know about?

 

[rpm]

Don`t worry marc it`s not relevent to your problem but as other plumbers were reading the thread I apologised first then hijacked the thread to give a warning to everybody.

 

[Best]

Just fit a new syphon - try to get one of the larger height syphons that are more compatible with your cistern water level. Syphon will be very cheap, the bomb will cost about £30 odd.
Well worth fixing as it will be a quality loo. Nothing will give trouble with the bomb part for a lifetime, unless someone carelessly breaks it when taking cistern off. Mine is near 40 years old & has only just recently had a new washer for first time!

 

[marc03]

so 100% a standard syphon will fit??
eg like the following model from b and q one ?Delchem 8In Dual Flush Siphon, 5397007127676

 

[Best]

so 100% a standard syphon will fit??
eg like the following model from b and q one ?Delchem 8In Dual Flush Siphon, 5397007127676

Probably will do. Only issue is the height of syphon as putting too low a syphon in will mean you will have less max water in cistern & also if it still has an ordinary ball valve then the valve arm can catch on the top edge of a too low syphon.
The bomb part just screws on to ordinary syphons, so no worry there. Just try & get proper bomb for toilet.

 

[marc03]

looks like ill have to get another bomb then as i did not see any screws on the old one.

ive not got a ball valve to more so that should be ok i guess.

problem i have is im unsure on how to fit a bomb as i never took notice when i ripped it out as i thought the flapper system i was putting in would work then i found out i had a syphonic toilet 🙁

 

[Best]

The bomb normally is threaded in it's upper part & just turns (screws) onto the threaded bottom of syphon. If your bomb is not too weak at it's slight crack, it might do again but it's a pain to remove cistern if it breaks.

 

[marc03]

The bomb normally is threaded in it's upper part & just turns (screws) onto the threaded bottom of syphon. If your bomb is not too weak at it's slight crack, it might do again but it's a pain to remove cistern if it breaks.

thanks for advice so far. is this ive found on ebay what im after and look ok?
Dudley siphon air extractor for siphonic toilet syphonic aspirator syphon bomb | eBay

 

[marc03]

also this is the old one but i dont see no thread on the bomb bit?
p.s thanks for pointing out rubber was upside down lol i most prob would have put it back in this way too ha

 

[Best]

thanks for advice so far. is this ive found on ebay what im after and look ok?
Dudley siphon air extractor for siphonic toilet syphonic aspirator syphon bomb | eBay

That's cheap. It might work. Got to be careful that the stem isn't too long & might need cut. Probably okay. I just, in the rare occasion where a bomb is broken, get exact one from merchants.

 

[Best]

Yours must be just a push in bomb, but either type does.

 

[marc03]

Yours must be just a push in bomb, but either type does.

yeah must be ill post a photo in a min and how i think its put together. then b and q tomorrow for a syphon 🙂 i might just try the old bomb with the crack on plastic first and fingers crossed it works

 

[marc03]

 

[marc03]

im guessing thats how it fits on and i just fit on toilet or should i push rubber right up into tube

 

[Best]

Only push the rubber washer onto the end of stem & ease the cistern carefully down onto pan & the washer will push up the stem itself & make contact to it's proper place inside the pan. Don't put the cistern at any stage off level any direction!
You could try a glue for hard plastics on the bomb, but it's your decision. It won't get any stresses after you manage to fit the cistern.

 

[marc03]

One last quick question before I attempt this. Should I use the big rubber donut washer that comes with the new siphon or shall I reuse the old one ? I ask because they look different and maybe the one that comes with new siphon may restrict the bomb? Or is this not the case.

 

[Best]

One last quick question before I attempt this. Should I use the big rubber donut washer that comes with the new siphon or shall I reuse the old one ? I ask because they look different and maybe the one that comes with new siphon may restrict the bomb? Or is this not the case.

Usually the large donut washer is either rotted or moulded into the shape it got compressed into.
Critical that it seals for siphonic loos, but replace with proper size.
I do use the old washer sometimes tbh, but only if they are like new & I mark the front of them so to fit them in same position. Up to yourself, but you really only want to fix & refit the cistern once.

 

[marc03]

right then got my new siphon and ive seeled the the bomb where there crack was so here goes nothing

 

[marc03]

Well its fitted!
Couple of problems though when i flush the water is still rising up in the pan and also there is a dribble doWn the pan after flush then after about 5 mins it turns into a slight dribble and bowl has to do a squirt of water now and again to keep up water level 🙁

Im thinking i need to maybe order that new bomb?
also what would cause the constant dribble?

Also in the siphon kit there was a coupling nut and washer that screws on end of threaded part which i have not put on because ive put a siphon bomb on. should i still have put this nut on?? i cant see what help it would do and cant recall seeing one when i took old one off but i cant be 100 sure.

 

[Killy Bing]

Sorry marc but i have to giggle
this is like watching a car crash in slow motion

atleast its only a toilet and not anything else 🙂

 

[SimonG]

Like your perseverance with the issue. But as far as labour and materials go should have brought in a pro.

 

[marc03]

sorted dribble issue water level a mil to much for the new siphon.

still have issue of water riseing when flushed but water does do down better after the rise.

 

[Best]

Back to the start again! Lol!
Forget about the small nut & washer - they are supplied with some new syphons incase for low level cisterns for connecting to a flush pipe.
If you have constant water dribbling into pan, you most likely haven't the syphon sealed properly into the cistern. Only other possibilities are water level too high for syphon or crack in syphon, but unlikely.

 

[Best]

sorted dribble issue water level a mil to much for the new siphon.

still have issue of water riseing when flushed but water does do down better after the rise.

Water will rise a bit before going away on syhonic loos but if it goes too high then the bomb or/and
Donut washer are not sealing right.

 

[marc03]

taken it off and had a look this time took me 10 mins check me out lol!

reposited and cut steam a little and im confident as i can be it making good contact with bowl.
Cant see the big dounut washer being the problem its not budging off the big plastic nut.

Think next step id ordering a new bomb.

Best. you said you've done lots of these? Is the riseing water problem usualy down to faulty bomb? there'S a lot of cracks and splits on the plastic i have sealed them but still its not ideal and the rubber does not look the best to be fair.

 

[Best]

Yea, usually the bomb washer is rotted or missing. You can buy washers that might do, but the stems can have different diameters, so probably better to fit a complete new bomb.
I have worked & used to fit siphonic loos the odd time & I always take a look at the loo before I think of starting to work at it to see if it is double siphonic type. A high up internal bowl or a larger than normal back of pan, sometimes with the shape of a double trap will indicate it's a siphonic loo.

 

[marc03]

 

[marc03]

Is that how it fits on? Or should the top open bit be inside siphon? Because that's how far it will go up and also as it is there in picture there is no way the bowl will sit on toilet it's well off even if I was to cut stem.

 

[gassafe]

Hate those syhonic bogs... I'm glad the customer is doing this DIY because if a plumber had to take it apart, order bits & make multiple trips back to the property the bill would be big & the plumber accused of being a rip off!

In the rare chance I see one I will stay well away lol

 

[SimonG]

Best toilets going. One visit should sort it.

 

[Whyme]

Oh dear..Wont it push in to the rim.

 

[marc03]

No not at all and I was so exited when I got the part delivered. As in the photo that's how far it will go and absolutely no way will it go further 🙁

 

[Whyme]

Is it a particular make cos i know some need a matching siphon.

 

[marc03]

It's a Dudley make.
Dudley siphon air extractor for siphonic toilet syphonic aspirator syphon bomb | eBay

 

[Whyme]

is the siphon Dudley.

 

[Aquazone]

Only just seen this thread. Both the bits you need you can get from Toolstation. You've already go aspirator so you just need one of these for it to fit into.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet%20Fittings/Turbo%2088%20Duoflush%20Syphon/d20/sd2835/p3199

 

[marc03]

is the siphon Dudley.

no i got a cheap one in B and Q if you recall i asked earlyer in thread if these bombs would fit in any siphons? well guess i just found the answer 🙁 unless theres a way to ram this thing up the one ive bought?

 

[Whyme]

I remember and i said i wasn't sure, guess that's both of us learn t something :yesnod:

 

[Best]

The bomb needs to be suitable for the bowl.

 

[Whyme]

and needs to go inside the siphon

 

[Best]

and needs to go inside the siphon

Or be a type that screws onto the syphon.
I thought he was getting a bomb that matched his new syphon. Think any old bomb would have done as long as it was not too long or short & obviously fits the syphon.

 

[marc03]

The bomb needs to be suitable for the bowl.

Did you see the photo i put up best?

The rubber is same size as my old one.

I Take it the open bit on top/side of bomb should be slid inside of siphon?

so it should just slide up easy'ly?

also are bottoms of siphons not standard size? as if there any bigger? yes bomb will fit up it but then wont it be to big to go through bottom of bowl?

 

[Whyme]

the spike bit of the siphon should go in the hole of the bowl and yes if the bombs internal it should slide in and looks like the dudley ones that take bombs must be a tad bigger internally.

 

[marc03]

does say on the page i bought it that they fit dudley turbo siphon i was just gambling at them all being standard side so guess thats my next move.
grr what a pain in the butt

 

[Aquazone]

Also, if there are others following this thread, the Dudley bombs don't fit in the adjustable Turbo syphons, only the set height versions. Don't ask me why, spent ages and snapped 2 trying to get it to fit before someone told me!!

 

[SimonG]

6 days 57 posts and still a toilet that needs attention.

 

[marc03]

Also, if there are others following this thread, the Dudley bombs don't fit in the adjustable Turbo syphons, only the set height versions. Don't ask me why, spent ages and snapped 2 trying to get it to fit before someone told me!!

So does it fit any every other kind of dudley siphons or a certain one?
ie - turbo 88 ect?

 

[marc03]

one last question for advive when they say size as in 7" 8" or 9" does it matter which one i get? if i can find one local tomorrow i will be getting one and hopfully put a end to this hell or please just flush me away!

 

[Whyme]

measure the size of the old one and buy a fixed version of that ie 8 inch, 9inch. you need to get the right size as well because siphonic bogs need a determined amount of water and flush to work.. hope that helps..

 

[Whyme]

Its been emotional please let us know if you fix it or not ..lol

 

[marc03]

6 days 57 posts and still a toilet that needs attention.

Your point is?
ONE im not a plumber just a simple security engineer.
Two if the toilet was not syphonic it would have been sorted at first atempt but like many people i will learn from this and the mistakes.
Three if just one person googles info and comes across this thread and does not have go through what i have to solve this then ill be happy
Four lastly ied like to thank you for your very value'd helpfull input to this thread! 🙂

 

[Whyme]

easy pal. whatever is posted on a thread take it on the chin..believe me.:yesnod:

 

[Killy Bing]

Have a giggle marc, look at it from our point of view, it is funny 🙂
you're getting more help here than you will anywhere else!

just means we will gently prod fun at you.

keep at it, most people would have ripped it out and thrown the toilet at the neighbors cat by now!

 

[Best]

It just seems nasty when some things are said in print! Always hard to judge the tone of a printed comment! :smile: He is correct though, - easy job to a plumber.
Everyone has been helpful & sympathetic I think.
Get a syphon of correct height & take any old parts with you & the new bomb to compare.

 

[JCplumb]

I still stand by mine and Kevs opinion from a few days ago.
Rip the bleeder out and stick a £50 B+Poo special in there. The one I fitted from B+Poo on Monday actually had fluidmaster flush and fill valves in it, I was most impressed 😉

 

[Best]

I still stand by mine and Kevs opinion from a few days ago.
Rip the bleeder out and stick a £50 B+Poo special in there. The one I fitted from B+Poo on Monday actually had fluidmaster flush and fill valves in it, I was most impressed 😉

Nothing to beat a siphonic toilet, though! Ordinary loos are just so common! :smile:
I like that the bowl base is so high & the pan has large base & the works are so simple & reliable & easily repairable. My own is almost 40 year old (Armitage) & only has had a new washer on the bomb & the pan - cistern domed washer renewed very recently by myself.

 

[SimonG]

Your point is?
ONE im not a plumber just a simple security engineer.
Two if the toilet was not syphonic it would have been sorted at first atempt but like many people i will learn from this and the mistakes.
Three if just one person googles info and comes across this thread and does not have go through what i have to solve this then ill be happy
Four lastly ied like to thank you for your very value'd helpfull input to this thread! 🙂

Point is 7 days and 68 posts.

Engineer, say no more.

 

[marc03]

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:🙂

Point is 7 days and 68 posts.

Engineer, say no more.

Piece and love to you piece and love 🙂

 

[SimonG]

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:🙂

Piece and love to you piece and love 🙂

Report back when you have fixed it 🙂 Love the perseverance.

PS 70 🙂

 

[marc03]

Check this bad boy out! Here I go. Again!

 

[kay-jay]

6 days 57 posts and still a toilet that needs attention.

I still stand by mine and Kevs opinion from a few days ago.
Rip the bleeder out and stick a £50 B+Poo special in there. The one I fitted from B+Poo on Monday actually had fluidmaster flush and fill valves in it, I was most impressed 😉

Yup post 2 of this thread. If you followed the suggestion you would be sitting on a new throne having a whale of a time flushing turds down the old sewage highway instead of digging holes in the garden and burying your business like a terrier...😀

 

[kay-jay]

P.s hope its a big garden........😕

 

[Best]

One advantage of this is you will have successfully completed your plumbing practical by the time you get the loo working properly!

 

[kay-jay]

One advantage of this is you will have successfully completed your plumbing practical by the time you get the loo working properly!

Yep and qualify for a job as a grave digger....😉

 

[Best]

Yep and qualify for a job as a grave digger....😉

I pity the forensic people for what they find when they turn up to investigate his neighbours concerns that he's been digging holes in his back garden & putting stuff in black plastic bags into them! :smile:

 

[marc03]

well 8 towels one flapper valve one b&q £4 siphon one dudley siphon bomb and one dudley siphon later i now have a working toilet with one hell of a flush 🙂

Thanks all for all your help very much appriated.

Shame i never new what parts to get in first place then i would have saved mysef £25 quid.

Must say thou im not sure why some people are saying they would run a mile if they seen these toilets as it was easy to fix with the right parts took me all of half hour only thing i had to do was cut stem on bomb a little.

for future Ref if anyone who needs to replace there syphonic toilets guts the bomb is on ebay 15 quid and the dudley siphon i had iN b and q £18.

To those who say should have just bought a new toilet! Yes i some what agree but i always like to finish things i start as in beginning i never new it was a siphonic toilet. also the toilet goes with my bathroom suit plus the parts really only cost £33.

Also ive kinda bounded with my toilet now even named her trudy 🙂

It taken a good few days to do this but remember 4 days of it was waiting for the bomb to be delivered.

Well thats it chaps thanks again and im off for a WELL DESERVED crap!!

 

[Whyme]

hallelujah.:teeth_smile:

 

[marc03]

Hi guys.

You are not going to believe this but it will make you laugh for sure as i am or i might just cry but...


Toilet still working fine 🙂 after all that palava but and its a BIG but i have beach pebbles scarted on the boxing behind toilet well earlyer today i was putting them back after the weeks events of fixing toilet and guess what i only bloody dropped one on the back of the toilet where you sit( yeah ok dont laugh to much lol) its made a hole and i can see where toilet goes into pan the hole is size of a pound coin.

SO is there any tips for filling over this hole you pros might know about???? ive started to try put clear sealent on in so far bit by bit so i dont actuly push it to far in where the water will flow through.

 

[kay-jay]

Hi guys.

You are not going to believe this but it will make you laugh for sure as i am or i might just cry but...


Toilet still working fine 🙂 after all that palava but and its a BIG but i have beach pebbles scarted on the boxing behind toilet well earlyer today i was putting them back after the weeks events of fixing toilet and guess what i only bloody dropped one on the back of the toilet where you sit( yeah ok dont laugh to much lol) its made a whole and i can see where toilet goes into pan the hole is sixe of a pound coin.

SO is there any tips for filling over this whole you pros might know about???? ive started to try put clear sealent on in so far bit by bit so i dont actuly push it to far in where the water will flow through.

Ha ha ha ha ha sorry ha ha
Best way to cover the hole is probably with the pebble....ha ha 😛

 

[Best]

Lol! Well, it is bye bye to the pan! That's why I hate people putting glass jars & heavy objects on shelves in bathrooms - just a question of when one is dropped & wrecks a bath or toilet.
Tec7 is a great sealer & works in damp, but maybe u want something more like clay.

 

[Whyme]

For the love of god nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. fraid it looks like a trip to the merchants for a new washdown pan cos u cant buy new siphonics anymore. Its been emotional.

 

[Best]

For the love of god nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. fraid it looks like a trip to the merchants for a new washdown pan cos u cant buy siphonics anymore. Its been emotional.

I actually have a new siphonic loo which has been in storage for years. I am no mug - it is there just incase some idiot drops something on my old loo! :smile:
Would be willing to sell it though! About £2000 or nearest offer. :grin:

 

[Irish]

Armitage Shanks toilet | eBay

 

[Whyme]

siphonic ? That looks like an old s trap washdown..

 

[Irish]

Lol only posted it for the craic

 

[kay-jay]

I got a second hand syphonic pan and cistern in the garage......

Champagne colour.

Bargain at £200. Needs a good clean ( not included in price) 🙂

 

[Best]

I have a siphonic loo to remove I disconnected the water off months ago.
tbh I would prefer to give it to someone, but probably not worth anyone using & it is coloured.

 

[Whyme]

put it on ebay and say if you fit this you need a 3 litre bucket of water to throw down whilst flushing to make it work and legal.

 

[WaterTight]

i've read a number of these threads and still don't feel i have 100% understood what you should/could have on you to fix any syphonic loo you come across on first visit.

can anyone with a talent for crystal clear concision set it out in a few short sentences? hopefully with links?

 

[kay-jay]

i've read a number of these threads and still don't feel i have 100% understood what you should/could have on you to fix any syphonic loo you come across on first visit.

can anyone with a talent for crystal clear concision set it out in a few short sentences? hopefully with links?

The best repair kit. That works on all syphonic toilets.

http://www.cheapsuites.co.uk/Adling...pr56108.html?gclid=CI3fqIq8zr0CFUf4wgodp3wA9g

 

[WaterTight]

my only concern is that if i have one on the van the customer will think i'm just not commited to repairs.

 

[Phil]

I would never bin a syphonic toilet...it would be like having a repair garage and a custard brings in a Bentley for you to fix and your like......"I wont fix it but I what I will do is throw it away and give you a brand spanking new Fiat 500"

and he's like...."WTF???"

 

[Ted808]

Virtual Lavatory: <A HREF="works.html">How the WC works</A>: Pans

Hi this link is quite helpful. I also met a siphonic a while ago, fella wanted to keep it as it matched his salmon pink bath suite.... so I had to repair... lucky my plumbers merch had a good idea of what i brought in and also had the gubbins for it. Not sure it sorted the shoddy flush- that's why he called me in the first place. I did ask if it was better when i'd gone back to do something else but he was kinda vague?? ah well ..