training centres for old gits

k1200rs · Apr 8, 2012

Whats the oldest age anyone has completed a plumbing / gas course at a training centre. Im 61 but have worked as a drainage engineer and house builder for years.
I wonder why a gas engineer doesnt take on a student and train him for the same money the centres take. I think Id rather pay the money to the engineer. Id like to train as a gas engineer as I dont feel ready to put my feet up yet but equally dont want to go to school with a load of 25 year olds. Just a thought.

tamz · Apr 8, 2012

I don't think there is an age limit on training centres taking your cash. They have no scruples that way:smile:

The reason companies don't (or no longer as they have wised up) train career changers is
1. They won't (can't) accept the low start training wages (for long) as they have financial commitments.
2. For the above reason, they will be off to make their 60K a year at the first opportunity
3. For the above reason, they have no loyalty.
4. Why train the opposition.
5. It costs a lot of money to train someone properly.

School leavers are different

1. They accept the low start training wages and have minimal if any financial commitments.
2. They may have aspirations of making 60K a year but it won't be for a while.
3. They are usually very loyal.
4. You are training what will be a valuable member of your team.
5. You will recoup your training costs.

People nearing retirement may be different but it will be hard to get a foot in the door.

Maybe at 61 you should play to your strengths and do what you do best rather than try to get into a dying industry where prices and rates are being forced down lower than they were 20 years ago.
The grass is no greener here but if this is something you want to do i wish you luck.

k1200rs · Apr 9, 2012

tamz said:
I don't think there is an age limit on training centres taking your cash. They have no scruples that way:smile:

The reason companies don't (or no longer as they have wised up) train career changers is
1. They won't (can't) accept the low start training wages (for long) as they have financial commitments.
2. For the above reason, they will be off to make their 60K a year at the first opportunity
3. For the above reason, they have no loyalty.
4. Why train the opposition.
5. It costs a lot of money to train someone properly.

School leavers are different

1. They accept the low start training wages and have minimal if any financial commitments.
2. They may have aspirations of making 60K a year but it won't be for a while.
3. They are usually very loyal.
4. You are training what will be a valuable member of your team.
5. You will recoup your training costs.

People nearing retirement may be different but it will be hard to get a foot in the door.

Maybe at 61 you should play to your strengths and do what you do best rather than try to get into a dying industry where prices and rates are being forced down lower than they were 20 years ago.
The grass is no greener here but if this is something you want to do i wish you luck.

Thanks for your reply

Point taken about sticking with what you know. My trouble is I get bored with what I know lol.

I wouldnt expect to get taken on by a company but would take my chances self employed as Ive done jobbing work for 25 years, and been self employed for 30, equally I would be looking at a sole trader engineer for training but as you say why train up a rival. The training centres have mentors for the portfolio work so some of them obviously agree to do it.

Drainage allways paid better than gas back in the good old days which is why I never chased it. I think prices in all the trades are less now and I found a lot of work has been taken by home insurance schemes.

tamz · Apr 9, 2012

It is the same everywhere. The big mobs are moving in on us all.

You just answered and confirmed what i said
"but would take my chances self employed "
and then
"Drainage allways paid better than gas back in the good old days"
Nothing has changed.
Most older guys changing jobs will want to go self employed, not blaming you for wanting to but anyone running a business knows this so you have little if any chance if getting a break.There will always be those who prostitute themselves to the training schools as that is where they make their money. These people don't care about the trade or what the consequences of their short term gain is.
Your training, if you go for it, will learn you very little and by the time you are picking it up you will be ready to hang your tool bag up.
This trade is on the way out. At least with ganging and drainlaying there is always the deterrent of having to do a hard shift to make your money but this trade is seen as easy money for little effort. I wish!
I am looking for a way out as it is becoming unbearable and i've done this shyt for 39 years.

k1200rs · Apr 9, 2012

tamz said:
It is the same everywhere. The big mobs are moving in on us all.

You just answered and confirmed what i said
"but would take my chances self employed "
and then
"Drainage allways paid better than gas back in the good old days"
Nothing has changed.
Most older guys changing jobs will want to go self employed, not blaming you for wanting to but anyone running a business knows this so you have little if any chance if getting a break.There will always be those who prostitute themselves to the training schools as that is where they make their money. These people don't care about the trade or what the consequences of their short term gain is.
Your training, if you go for it, will learn you very little and by the time you are picking it up you will be ready to hang your tool bag up.
This trade is on the way out. At least with ganging and drainlaying there is always the deterrent of having to do a hard shift to make your money but this trade is seen as easy money for little effort. I wish!
I am looking for a way out as it is becoming unbearable and i've done this shyt for 39 years.

Hello Tamz
You sound as despondent as me lol.
Your right about the big boys moving in all the time and taking over. The press didnt help years ago with their ludicrous headlines of plumbers on a 100k a year and more. A journalist for the Evening Standard called out a plumber in London for a blocked wc. He charged him £100 an hour £300 for the job. The jounalist works out that to be £800 a day(cos hes clever) times 5 plus the weekend work. WOW!! He has headline news. Soon after I noticed in the Telegraph that the plumbing and drainage industry in this country was worth 2 billion a year. Someones antenna went up and the suits started stirring. That was enough to get Cecil and Rodney floating around on their yaughts in St Tropez interested so half a billion on a flash nationwide call centre should do the trick. They can then sell plumbing and drainage and call it insurance and get paid through premiums for NOT DOING THE WORK!!. Ofcourse the downside is they might have to honour a claim so now their losing money so its in and out and only the basics to be done and not even that if the call centre girls are doing what theve been trained to do......."We dont come out to blocked toilets if you have more than four curries a week sir"

So I packed it in for a while as I knew that if Cecil and Rodney came out with me for a week theyd be crying for their mummys.

I preffered building my own houses so I done a couple and wasnt impressed with the gas engineer so thats when I thought I could do that better myself (with the right training)

I cant really see there being enough work around for all the students coming out of these centres, seems to me like the Californian gold rush. The people who made the real money were the people who trained the prospectors in panning and sold them the shovels.

PlumbBobBob · Apr 9, 2012

you're absolutely right there. the training centres are to blame for pushing the high wages that can be achieved, and stating as fact that there is a massive shortage of plumbers. when in fact there is a over supply of plumbers because of these training providers.

WaterTight · Apr 9, 2012

Just a thought but you could seek out an engineer in the next town to your's. One of the guys who trained me up in plumbing was in the next town to mine and that's partly why he was happy to. We also had a 'gentleman's agreement' I'd never seek work there, which I honoured. That gets rid of the 'why train the competition' factor.

k1200rs · Apr 9, 2012

Hi watertight and Steveb,
Yes thats what I was looking for really, someone not too far but not in the competition zone. Did you pay your engineer to train you? How long were you with him? I would expect to do that if he was a decent guy as I guess your under his feet for a while but then it must turn around to the point where hes getting paid for standing over you. Nice work I reckon and the engineer gets the money (rightly so)

ChipDoctor · Apr 9, 2012

Hi Kl,

Like you I am 61 and a couple of years ago was made redundant for the fourth time which seemed like it was becoming a habit! While looking around for my next job ( I was apprenticed (4 years) and worked in IT since '68 ) I stumbled across T4T about which much has been written in this forum. I asked about retraining as an Electrician as in my dim and distant I'd picked up a C&G in this and have worked in Electronics etc since '68. The salesman said that there was little demand for Electricians but just in my area with a population of about 50,000 there were just 30 plumbers who were rushed off their feet and realling coining it in! Sounded good to me so I signed up and have completed most of the training modules and will go on to the end. But I got another job which paid well doing what I've been doing for decades so I won't be pursuing plumbing. Local plumbers breathe a sigh of relief 🙂

Last year I replaced my bathroom and replumbed it which was very satisfying and saved me a bob or two. However I did realise that at 61 I got tired more quickly than in my 20s of course and also it was on my time and at my speed. I didn't have a customer asking me every hour when it would be finished - actually my wife did a fair imitation 😉

So, I'm sticking with what I know and hope to take the C&G exam just for my own satisafaction, hopefully I'll get Part P as well which will help.

Cheers,
ChipDoctor

k1200rs · Apr 9, 2012

Hi ChipDoctor
Thanks for your story and well done on completing your modules. I might still go down that road but like you Im not as energetic as I once was but still would find plumbing physically easier than drainage.
I also worked as a sparks apprentice back when I left school but only done a year at college before realising that girls were more interesting than Ohms Law. I was also recently looking at the part p courses but I heard just recently that the government is thinking about relaxing the part p and gas safe laws. Im not sure how reliable that information is yet.

Most of what I want to learn is also more for self satisfaction and it would come in handy if I do another new build house. The last electrician I had drilled my new joists contrary to the regulations and had no right angle drill with him so the holes were not only in the wrong area but also at an angle only his power drill would allow.
NHBC were not impressed.

There seems to be negative feedback on the T4T courses and Im quite local to one of the others so might check them out. Were you the oldest student there?

ChipDoctor · Apr 9, 2012

Relaxing Part P? That's an interesting rumour. According to Jeff Howell in the Torygraph the push behind it in the first place was from an MP who'd had lights wired wrongly and over-reacted. Mind you Jeff also disbelieves in rising damp and attributes that only to internal condensation so...

I've not met any others doing the T4T course. I should have been to the workshop learning but as each one costs me 5 days holiday my motivation is low. If I was still on the dole then I would feel different. The course mainly involves study from books, most of which are good but with a few errors as one might expect. Then you also get a DVD of practical exercises which are intensely frustrating to complete. Because the assessment is by your computer unless you've doen absolutely everything required 100% to the book then you can't complete that exercise and are doomed to repeat it until you throw a spanner through your screen.

Cheers, I'll just keep taking the salary from my new job until they kick me out and then I shall retire, for the third and final time. A happy thought.

GQuigley67 · Apr 9, 2012

when im 61 i hope im not doing this job anymore, maybe off the tools in management or something less demanding, my experience with working with adult trainees is they dont know as much as they think they do, and some dont seem to like taking orders off of young people like me.

at 61 I would be looking at becoming a taxi driver for a career change, nice and easy with good money to be made