Vaillant Ecotec pro Low working gas pressure

[Victor555]

I would like some opinions on this situation.

Vaillant Ecotec pro 28

Installed 2 years ago,

Commissioned Gas pressure reading 16.5mb at max rate.

1st annual service passed.(2018)

Just has second Service all combustion tests passed, and issued a Warning Advice notice of Immediately dangerous (ID) Reason Gas pressure on gas valve 14mbar, min requ 17mb.

Action: New 22mm gas pipe.

Vaillant Boiler installation and maintenance instructions says

Permissible gas flow pressure for operation with
G20 natural gas: 1.3 … 2.3 kPa (13.0 … 23.0 mbar)

Pressure at meter good, was checked by cadent with boiler on and all gas hobs on full.
No reply from original Gas safe installer.

Should I ask a for a second opinion on why it has classed a ID?

Boiler was switched off, but gas was not capped off.

Would it be safe to run boiler ? ( has been working fine, with no faults, good flame)

Question, Approx How much would running new pipe on outside property cost from gas meter to boiler. Metre at front if house, boiler at back of house 1st floor bedroom.

 

[Riley]

Depends on kw of boiler I’d be looking at some 28mm pipe there if it’s a long run. If it’s ID it should be capped off so it sounds like an indecisive engineer. You mention good flame you shouldn’t be removing the front cover of your boiler as it creates a combustion seal. It’s not just about flame picture it will also be the FGA readings, I assume he did one

 

[Harvest Fields]

You either need to provide all the evidence to the engineer that has capped it or start over again. Boiler should be capped if Classed as immediately dangerous.

 

[Victor555]

When I meant flame good, was referring to

also no LF faults

 

[Scott_D]

How did cadent test if the boiler is off?
You can get a second opinion, they can cut a test point under the boiler to get a true reading

 

[Riley]

When I meant flame good, was referring to
View attachment 37913
also no LF faults

????

 

[Victor555]

????

D.044 >800 no flame, <400 good flame.

 

[Riley]

Please don’t mess with the D menus. And it’s not all about the probe

 

[Harvest Fields]

You need a gas safe registered engineer as I have already said above mate.

 

[Victor555]

You need a gas safe registered engineer as I have already said above mate.

Thanks, I will ask them to come back and recheck. As its under a service agreement, I hope they do come back with another Engineer to re-check. Then id still low, then will need to get quotes for new gas pipe and wondering what approx cost would be?

 

[Riley]

As we say we don’t know distances routes or where you are in the world so we can’t comment on cost

 

[Last Plumber]

You need a second opinion from a Gas safe registered Engineer who has carried out some on site tests.

The 14 mbar W.P. (Working pressure) is not something I would consider Immediately dangerous but I do not know the reasons he came to that conclusion?

If it was considered to be immediately dangerous, I would expect the Engineer to ask your permission to disconnect it from the gas supply and also issue a warning notice explaining the reason.

 

[Victor555]

You need a second opinion from a Gas safe registered Engineer who has carried out some on site tests.

The 14 mbar W.P. (Working pressure) is not something I would consider Immediately dangerous but I do not know the reasons he came to that conclusion?

If it was considered to be immediately dangerous, I would expect the Engineer to ask your permission to disconnect it from the gas supply and also issue a warning notice explaining the reason.

The notice says " Gas working pressure at P1 on gas valve 14mbar min req, 17mbar.
Details of action taken: Boiler off, gas off. remedial action required: New 22mm gas pipe.
But thr gas is still on, so wanted to know if running at 14mbar is ID?

 

[Riley]

Simple answer it could be ID we don’t know the specifics or the tests run

 

[sammathias]

You need to get a different engineer out. 14mb is low but still within manufacturers tolerance...

 

[Last Plumber]

I wasn't there to witness why it was classified as i.d. I (like anyone else) would need to carry out various tests in order to arrive at a decision. Sorry, I know this is little help and I hope you understand that as registered Engineers, it would not be fair to undermine a decision made by another registered Engineer over the internet, based purely on what you tell us. The Engineer who you dealt with may have had good reason to arrive at the decision he did.

There is a bit of conflicting information though. Above, you mention the 13 mb to 23 mb which comes from the newer manuals. The Engineer has wrote 17 mb required. That information was from older manuals so which one do you have?

 

[Victor555]

I wasn't there to witness why it was classified as i.d. I (like anyone else) would need to carry out various tests in order to arrive at a decision. Sorry, I know this is little help and I hope you understand that as registered Engineers, it would not be fair to undermine a decision made by another registered Engineer over the internet, based purely on what you tell us. The Engineer who you dealt with may have had good reason to arrive at the decision he did.

There is a bit of conflicting information though. Above, you mention the 13 mb to 23 mb which comes from the newer manuals. The Engineer has wrote 17 mb required. That information was from older manuals so which one do you have?

I have the new one. not sure why engineer wrote down min req. 17mbar. maybe he was not aware of new values?

 

[Last Plumber]

I have the new one. not sure why engineer wrote down min req. 17mbar. maybe he was not aware of new values?

Maybe not!
Best thing to do is inquire. He may well have the 17 figure in mind and be unaware that it has been altered recently.
Worth asking in my opinion, it could save an expensive job.

 

[Victor555]

Maybe not!
Best thing to do is inquire. He may well have the 17 figure in mind and be unaware that it has been altered recently.
Worth asking in my opinion, it could save an expensive job.

Agree. I have been in touch will the call centre and they wont send another engineer until I can provide proof/paper work from candent to show that gas meter pressure was checked. Thats going to take another 5days!.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Agree. I have been in touch will the call centre and they wont send another engineer until I can provide proof/paper work from candent to show that gas meter pressure was checked. Thats going to take another 5days!.

Worth doing though mate to be honest.

 

[Last Plumber]

Agree. I have been in touch will the call centre and they wont send another engineer until I can provide proof/paper work from candent to show that gas meter pressure was checked. Thats going to take another 5days!.

If you are without heating and Hot water because of something you think may be their fault, then you could insist on a visit?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Bet he’s tested from the gas valve need to add your resistance eg normally around 2.5 mbar and 1 for your line so total 3.5 mbar

 

[Harvest Fields]

Needs to cut a test point before the gas valve on the gas pipework underneath the boiler

 

[Victor555]

Needs to cut a test point before the gas valve on the gas pipework underneath the boiler

Is this normal for a routine 2nd service? boiler 2 years old?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is this normal for a routine 2nd service? boiler 2 years old?

Nope. I fit one when installing the boiler. As I once had 14.5 at the valve. Put a test point in before the boiler and had 19 at the boiler.

 

[Victor555]

Nope. I fit one when installing the boiler. As I once had 14.5 at the valve. Put a test point in before the boiler and had 19 at the boiler.

Thanks Very interesting ...

On a side note. When I requested to have the condensate trap cleaned, he put it back without filling with water. When I asked why? As Service manual says to, his reply was no need for this type of boiler, when boiler runs it will fill by it self.

Is he right?

 

[Last Plumber]

Thanks Very interesting .

On a side note. When I requested to have the condensate trap cleaned, he put it back without filling with water. When I asked why? As Service manual says to, his reply was no need for this type of boiler, when boiler runs it will fill by it self.

Is he right?

No. The condensate trap should be filled prior to running the Boiler. If the trap is dry, products of combustion will exit the condensate pipe termination point until the trap has filled.

If all that you say is true, I think you should voice polite concern in writing (email) to the service manager.

 

[Scott_D]

Thanks Very interesting .

On a side note. When I requested to have the condensate trap cleaned, he put it back without filling with water. When I asked why? As Service manual says to, his reply was no need for this type of boiler, when boiler runs it will fill by it self.

Is he right?

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

 

[Harvest Fields]

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

Doubt it. Bet it was all after thoughts.

 

[Victor555]

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

We’re you watching, reading the book and offering an opinion during the service?

Was watching, but not offering an opinion.

 

[Scott_D]

This thread is full of contradictions

 

[king of pipes]

Valliants are known to loose pressure through the gas valve ask your GSI to install a test point before the gas valve and retest , you should have 21mbar +/- 2mbar at the meter and 20 mbar +/- 2mbar so no lower than 18mbar at this test point on full load . Kop

 

[Harvest Fields]

Valliants are known to loose pressure through the gas valve ask your GSI to install a test point before the gas valve and retest , you should have 21mbar +/- 2mbar at the meter and 20 mbar +/- 2mbar so no lower than 18mbar at this test point on full load . Kop

So what I said😛😛😛

 

[Harvest Fields]

Just busting you b***s mate

 

[king of pipes]

Sorry H didn't see your post mate but great minds bud! I had the same issue on a council contract years back so now fit a test point before the gas valve saves alot of grief . Kop