C&G 6128 or C&G 6129? Please help...

[kingm1988]

Hi,

So i have come to the conclusion that i want to be a plumber, and have decided to do so via the private provider route. Reason being that college/apprenticeship would take too long.
My question is, what's the difference between the City & Guilds 6128 and the City & Guilds 6129 qualification. Many providers offer one or the other, each biased towards the one that they provide, claiming that theirs is the more appropriate and 'industry recognized'. I have devoted an unhealthy set of hours each day in search of a definitive answer. But no luck. I simply want to become a plumber, and then move on to be CORGI registered etc...

Im aware that both qualifications will give you the opportunity to gain these credentials. Im also aware the 6128 is a Heating & Ventilation certificate and that the 6129 is a general plumbing one, yet both lead you to getting the full NVQ Level 2 (after all the on-site assessments in a work place etc), which is essentially what you need to be a plumber. But whats the real difference??

It would be great to hear from people in the same boat as me, as i am sure that there are many who have encountered this same dilemma, and probably feel you are left in the middle, and pretty much in the dark, with everyone giving you misleading info, and even plumbers telling you that private providers are a waste of time. I would love to hear from people that have taken these qualification, especially the 6128, as this seems to be the cheaper of the two, but im a bit suspicious as to why that is the case.
Thanks for any help.

 

[Tim.A]

The 6128/6129 won't give you the NVQ, The NVQ is a different Qualification to the City and Guilds.

City and Guilds- Theory and practice.

NVQ- Work based learning and tests.

 

[fuzzy]

both are technical certifictaes. the H&V route is industrial and commercail heating with some basic plumbing attached. the 6129 is all domestic plumbing and heating. neither are industry recognised, so much so employers dont wanna know newly qualified candidates with only tech certs.
is there no other job u wanna get into?

 

[Carl86]

Fuzzy is correct, the 6129 is purely theory and work shop based. The NVQ folder is whats completed onsite, job records of tasks and pictures of your work need to be added to the folder and an assessor will come out and look at the standards of your work and ask you questions. The tradesman who works with you also signs the folder.

Level 3 standards where gas is involved, you need to work along side a qualified registerd gas installer.

 

[kingm1988]

Yeh my mistake. I know the 6128/6129 aren't NVQ's. But when doing them you get to build up a portfolio of all your work, and then assessors will come along to your workplace to do the NVQ with you etc, like Fuzzy said.

Have any of you guys done the 6128/6129? and are now working as a plumber?

Fuzzy you mentioned that the 6128 is more industrial and commercial, does that mean my employability to a residential plumbing firm would be limited? After all, i intend to go self employed once i've built up my confidence etc and work in residential areas.

 

[danielp]

you will be lucky to get a job with just the theory side

 

[kingm1988]

anybody got an opinion??
lots of people are reading the thread, just no-one responding! Is that because no-one is really sure? or because no-one gives two s***'*?

 

[Branwell08]

Yeh my mistake. I know the 6128/6129 aren't NVQ's. But when doing them you get to build up a portfolio of all your work, and then assessors will come along to your workplace to do the NVQ with you etc, like Fuzzy said.

Hi,

6128/6129 are the technical certificate, and not NVQs. The NVQ is 6088/6089 respectively. The assessor will not come out on a technical certificate. Dodgy ground this, but you should be signed up as Work based learner before you can do 6088/6089.

6128 is a Heating and Ventilation qualification.
6129 is a Cetificate in Basic plumbing.

Both college based, however there are simulated assessment with 6129 and a series of modular theory test.

Summitskills say if you do 6128 you can not call yourself a plumber! There are several different paths you can take under 6128, domestic, Commercial, maintenance and ductwork.

Imho.
6129 is harder, it has college based assessment, and gives a more rounded understanding skill.

I passed 6129 then 6089 to level 3, then became corgi registered, so am biased. Hope that helps.

 

[Readingplumber]

In response to Branwell08 who says 6129 is harder than 6128, -

They are both level 2 standards - its like saying gcse english is harder than gcse maths - ie they are different but to same level!

In my opinion i judge someone by the fact if they are gas safe registered which both 6088 and 6089 gas safe treat exactly the same when appling for gas safe registration.

Most colleges do the 6128 scheme as there isnt any specified practical exams where as the 6129 has specified practical exams which colleges find costs a fortune in space and resources.

Also the 6129 does lead which is a bit of a waste of time for 2 reasons - If you complete the lead modules in workshop conditions, i can assure you that most students wouldnt be able to install lead work on a real chimney - ( this is not assessed on the 6089 nvq bit of it)

When it comes to plumbing 99.99 percent of plumbers dont touch lead work - done by roofing companies these days-

I find that with the 6128 you can spend more time learning about heating systems rater than spending weeks learning about lead that you wont ever use.

Thanks

Chris

 

[WaterTight]

Traditional route = 4/5 year apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships = Now effectively non-existant

Fast-Track Courses = Booming

Result = Too many fast-trackers

Fast-Trackers = Not plumbers

Fast-Tracker's Job Prospects = Nothing (most likely) Unpaid work-experience (relatively likely if persistant) Employable As A Trainee (not impossible but very highly sought after)


I did the 6129, 5 months full-time at a reputable college. Used it to struggle into unpaid work-experience after months of searching. Further searching has led just recently to possible offer of paid trainee position.

This suits my circumstances. I've no kids, no mortgage. But if you have... think again...

You have literally, LITERALLY.. no chance of being employed as a plumber, on a plumber's money, after the 6218/6129.

But if you're realistic and prepared to work for free for experience before possibly getting a job as a trainee for a pittance with the chance of, several years down the line, approaching looking like something of a plumber... able to be paid something approaching looking like a plumber's money.. Then yes, you can do that. It's not impossible.

But unless you're either a very talented DIY'er looking to be out on his own in no-time or someone with no real commitments who is prepared to take **** money for a good few years...probably not worth it.

 

[Smcart5]

Traditional route = 4/5 year apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships = Now effectively non-existant

Fast-Track Courses = Booming

Result = Too many fast-trackers

Fast-Trackers = Not plumbers

Fast-Tracker's Job Prospects = Nothing (most likely) Unpaid work-experience (relatively likely if persistant) Employable As A Trainee (not impossible but very highly sought after)


I did the 6129, 5 months full-time at a reputable college. Used it to struggle into unpaid work-experience after months of searching. Further searching has led just recently to possible offer of paid trainee position.

This suits my circumstances. I've no kids, no mortgage. But if you have... think again...

You have literally, LITERALLY.. no chance of being employed as a plumber, on a plumber's money, after the 6218/6129.

But if you're realistic and prepared to work for free for experience before possibly getting a job as a trainee for a pittance with the chance of, several years down the line, approaching looking like something of a plumber... able to be paid something approaching looking like a plumber's money.. Then yes, you can do that. It's not impossible.

But unless you're either a very talented DIY'er looking to be out on his own in no-time or someone with no real commitments who is prepared to take **** money for a good few years...probably not worth it.

As someone who literally finished the 6128 course a few days ago i'm following this thread and i have a few questions.

What would you call **** money, i have no real commitments apart from needing to rent a place and pay for food/bills, that's if by commitments you mean a family to support etc...

If what you say is true and apprenticeships are nearly dead, with incompetent fast trackers everywhere how are the newer generations starting up in the trade?

I see gas installer vans everywhere, i want to be realistic but i am hoping my two year course was not an utter waste of time but i can't accept its an almost impossible trade to get into, maybe i should start learning electrical installation /sigh

 

[Winston]

I did my 6129 a year ago wrote to countless companies for employment one reply. In the end have had to go out alone, which is hard as you really do not have the experience.

But I have fought on and am starting to get repeat work and reccomendations. But I am very selective as to what I take on, I like a challange but not at my customers cost.

I have found by using my local independant merchant a good source of info and knowledge. I also pass on all my gas enquiries or stuff out of my league to a time served.

It has not been easy setting up on your own there are lots of costs and if it does not fall in line with your turnover and profit you are in trouble.

I did however make a nominal profit in my first year but nothing to get excited about, though I am pleased considering the costs of setting up.

The last month my turnover about £2,500 Gross profit £900.00
This month td about £3,000 Gross profit expected £700.00

I would expect the profit to be higher, but still buying tools as and when I really need them and can justify.

Whatever though do not be taken in by training companies promising the 100k a year I dont think its there.

 

[bez7409]

am i correct in saying that the 6129 is the technical certificate level 3? Are you sure this has lead in as i know the tech cert level 2 does but not sure on the level 3. I am contemplting doing a night course on 6129 as ive already got my NVQ 2 and am looking to build on my qualifications.

 

[keylock000]

reply to readingplumber re lead
i've been doing construction work for 20 plus years and have just done the 6129 C&G
the work on a chimney would normally be done by a roofer but i found the college practical course was simple and i could with ease do lead work to a chimney

but i heard that C& G were going to drop the leadwork on the 6129 as of 2009/10 and we were the last to do this part
shame really

kingm1988

i know a lot of people who do not like the quick route to plumbing 6129 & 6128 ect

i dont think you can learn very much at all from this route but if thats what you wanna do... then do it
it will get you a certificate.... but it will not make you knowledgeable or help you to understand the how and why things are on a site.... somethings you can only learn with on the job practice
thats why there's a difference in the training IE fron City & Guilds to NVQ... it tests your knowhow and why... ect
you will not get the NVQ till you pass this work based tests and will not then get the CSCS or the JIB/PMES cert in your field of whatever you intend to do
but if you like plumbing (Domestic or HVAC as this is the two items you were talking about) then try to get in with a plumbing company

PS a couple of years in college is fun and passes very quickly maybe too quick =(
so think about it as ongoing experience well worth investing

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! All

To get some idea of the difference between C &G and NVQ. Its helpful to understand how NVQ's came about.

In the 1980's it was found that British industry had only about 10% of its workforce with any qualification for the job they where doing. The EU norm was something like 90%.

So what to do?

The government came up with the National Vocational Qualification. What that meant was that inspectors and examiners would go into every industry and test people on their knowledge about the job they where doing.

It was made up of modules, called, if I remember right, Competences toward, and then after gaining so many, they would be awarded an NVQ level 1 - 4.

If you had a C and G this would count as a module toward a NVQ.

So NVQ's are track record based, as well as qualification based and can't really be taught in a college.

Although you can perhaps gain certain modules in college toward an NVQ if they still recognise the C and G as a module.

Also I think in some places you can gain up to Level 2 NVQ on college courses, but obviously you need the work experience to get Level 3 which is probably the one employers want.

One of the old systems seemed the best to me. A person was given 12 months intensive training in a college both practical and theory. Then they went to get a job at Trainee rate and stayed a Trainee for 2 years. As far as I know the companies also got paid for taking Trainees. It was good.

The thing is, I think it probably proved too expensive to run.
And I think I remember, in manufacturing industry, other countries moaned about it not being fair, as it was perhaps seen as supporting industries they where in competition with, so it was against trade agreements. Probably still the same today.

 

[mickwhiteside@t]

Hi

I am just taking on my son as an apprentice plumber. To gain his qualifications through Summit Skils he must go to day release at the local college and do either 6129 or 6128 which are his tech certificates. He then, with the assitance of the college undertakes his NVQ applicable to the course where they come out to site and an NVQ assessor assesses his work. Only on satisfactory completion of both elements will he be issued with a foundation apprenticeship certificate from Summit Skills. That is part one NVQ 2. After that he can stay on at college on day release and earn his tech cert and attempt his NVQ on site based work with NVQ assessors coming to site to check him out. Again on satisfactory completion Summit Skills will award a Modern Apprenticeship Certificate. In total with the college it will take approx 4 years to attain NVQ 3 and a decent apprenticship. But if you follow this link you will see that Summit Skills ask for a lot of different evidence to support both HVACR 6128 and Plumbing 6129, but in essence they both require the tech cert from college and the NVQ applicable.
[DLMURL="http://www.summitskills.org.uk/Apprenticeships/Certification-and-Registration/219"]SummitSkills | Home[/DLMURL] where the fast track system lets a lot down is that it gives the tech cert but not the NVQ, the Tech Cert on its own is worth the square root of zero.

 

[david williams]

the pity is all this 30,000 plumbers jobs going beging is just training company hype.at the moment there are very few jobs out there for fully competant plumbers ,and most employers want 4 to 5 years post training experience before you even get an interveiw,ask your trainer to show you who will employ you and just how many jobs there are out there.

 

[mk79]

After recently completing the 6129 on a 3 month intensive course with a good reputable local college, ive found it most worthwhile and learned lots in a short space of time the best part was it didnt cost me a penny as funding was available through the LSC and was means tested agianst my current circumstances so all the fees where waived completely. Iam now starting partime work as a plumbers mate the pay is poor but it leads onto getting the NVQ then it will be happydays 🙂 ...

 

[justlead1]

A good plumber earns good money, But in response lets train them and earn more without the aggravation. Tread carefully, if you can not get a job close to plumbing with out qualification. In my opinion you wont get one with them. When trying, show passion not intellect, but not to thick. Either put plumbers off. Expect to pay for the privilege. Its one step down from getting a degree. You would be in debt after that. If you turn out good you can earn plenty. But the qualifications you talk of {of which i have a few) will not be cashed at Tesco. In fact during my career (62 to day and under the influence) i can only remember needing them on approx 3 occasions. And they were establishment type jobs when recession occurred. Have a go at helping someone in any aspect of the trade, just get out there and DO IT. Good Luck

 

[WHPES]

I originally cut my teeth on pipeline and heating engineering (technically and degree qualified), with 15 years of industrial design and installation experience, then decided to get into domestics. I did the 6129 course and found that most of it I had far more experience than most of the tutors, however I can see that for those coming into the industry from outside might struggle without the technical experience or background.

What I have found since having my own business is that I completely mop up any pipeline or large bore work in the area as no other plumbers round here have any experience or interest in working on large bore or flanged pipework systems! I can easily undercut the opposition and still make a healthy profit due to their distances.