C&G 6128 or C&G 6129? Please help...

[kingm1988]

Hi,

So i have come to the conclusion that i want to be a plumber, and have decided to do so via the private provider route. Reason being that college/apprenticeship would take too long.
My question is, what's the difference between the City & Guilds 6128 and the City & Guilds 6129 qualification. Many providers offer one or the other, each biased towards the one that they provide, claiming that theirs is the more appropriate and 'industry recognized'. I have devoted an unhealthy set of hours each day in search of a definitive answer. But no luck. I simply want to become a plumber, and then move on to be CORGI registered etc...

Im aware that both qualifications will give you the opportunity to gain these credentials. Im also aware the 6128 is a Heating & Ventilation certificate and that the 6129 is a general plumbing one, yet both lead you to getting the full NVQ Level 2 (after all the on-site assessments in a work place etc), which is essentially what you need to be a plumber. But whats the real difference??

It would be great to hear from people in the same boat as me, as i am sure that there are many who have encountered this same dilemma, and probably feel you are left in the middle, and pretty much in the dark, with everyone giving you misleading info, and even plumbers telling you that private providers are a waste of time. I would love to hear from people that have taken these qualification, especially the 6128, as this seems to be the cheaper of the two, but im a bit suspicious as to why that is the case.
Thanks for any help.

 

[Tim.A]

The 6128/6129 won't give you the NVQ, The NVQ is a different Qualification to the City and Guilds.

City and Guilds- Theory and practice.

NVQ- Work based learning and tests.

 

[fuzzy]

both are technical certifictaes. the H&V route is industrial and commercail heating with some basic plumbing attached. the 6129 is all domestic plumbing and heating. neither are industry recognised, so much so employers dont wanna know newly qualified candidates with only tech certs.
is there no other job u wanna get into?

 

[Carl86]

Fuzzy is correct, the 6129 is purely theory and work shop based. The NVQ folder is whats completed onsite, job records of tasks and pictures of your work need to be added to the folder and an assessor will come out and look at the standards of your work and ask you questions. The tradesman who works with you also signs the folder.

Level 3 standards where gas is involved, you need to work along side a qualified registerd gas installer.

 

[kingm1988]

Yeh my mistake. I know the 6128/6129 aren't NVQ's. But when doing them you get to build up a portfolio of all your work, and then assessors will come along to your workplace to do the NVQ with you etc, like Fuzzy said.

Have any of you guys done the 6128/6129? and are now working as a plumber?

Fuzzy you mentioned that the 6128 is more industrial and commercial, does that mean my employability to a residential plumbing firm would be limited? After all, i intend to go self employed once i've built up my confidence etc and work in residential areas.

 

[danielp]

you will be lucky to get a job with just the theory side

 

[kingm1988]

anybody got an opinion??
lots of people are reading the thread, just no-one responding! Is that because no-one is really sure? or because no-one gives two s***'*?

 

[Branwell08]

Yeh my mistake. I know the 6128/6129 aren't NVQ's. But when doing them you get to build up a portfolio of all your work, and then assessors will come along to your workplace to do the NVQ with you etc, like Fuzzy said.

Hi,

6128/6129 are the technical certificate, and not NVQs. The NVQ is 6088/6089 respectively. The assessor will not come out on a technical certificate. Dodgy ground this, but you should be signed up as Work based learner before you can do 6088/6089.

6128 is a Heating and Ventilation qualification.
6129 is a Cetificate in Basic plumbing.

Both college based, however there are simulated assessment with 6129 and a series of modular theory test.

Summitskills say if you do 6128 you can not call yourself a plumber! There are several different paths you can take under 6128, domestic, Commercial, maintenance and ductwork.

Imho.
6129 is harder, it has college based assessment, and gives a more rounded understanding skill.

I passed 6129 then 6089 to level 3, then became corgi registered, so am biased. Hope that helps.

 

[Readingplumber]

In response to Branwell08 who says 6129 is harder than 6128, -

They are both level 2 standards - its like saying gcse english is harder than gcse maths - ie they are different but to same level!

In my opinion i judge someone by the fact if they are gas safe registered which both 6088 and 6089 gas safe treat exactly the same when appling for gas safe registration.

Most colleges do the 6128 scheme as there isnt any specified practical exams where as the 6129 has specified practical exams which colleges find costs a fortune in space and resources.

Also the 6129 does lead which is a bit of a waste of time for 2 reasons - If you complete the lead modules in workshop conditions, i can assure you that most students wouldnt be able to install lead work on a real chimney - ( this is not assessed on the 6089 nvq bit of it)

When it comes to plumbing 99.99 percent of plumbers dont touch lead work - done by roofing companies these days-

I find that with the 6128 you can spend more time learning about heating systems rater than spending weeks learning about lead that you wont ever use.

Thanks

Chris

 

[WaterTight]

Traditional route = 4/5 year apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships = Now effectively non-existant

Fast-Track Courses = Booming

Result = Too many fast-trackers

Fast-Trackers = Not plumbers

Fast-Tracker's Job Prospects = Nothing (most likely) Unpaid work-experience (relatively likely if persistant) Employable As A Trainee (not impossible but very highly sought after)


I did the 6129, 5 months full-time at a reputable college. Used it to struggle into unpaid work-experience after months of searching. Further searching has led just recently to possible offer of paid trainee position.

This suits my circumstances. I've no kids, no mortgage. But if you have... think again...

You have literally, LITERALLY.. no chance of being employed as a plumber, on a plumber's money, after the 6218/6129.

But if you're realistic and prepared to work for free for experience before possibly getting a job as a trainee for a pittance with the chance of, several years down the line, approaching looking like something of a plumber... able to be paid something approaching looking like a plumber's money.. Then yes, you can do that. It's not impossible.

But unless you're either a very talented DIY'er looking to be out on his own in no-time or someone with no real commitments who is prepared to take **** money for a good few years...probably not worth it.

 

[Smcart5]

Traditional route = 4/5 year apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships = Now effectively non-existant

Fast-Track Courses = Booming

Result = Too many fast-trackers

Fast-Trackers = Not plumbers

Fast-Tracker's Job Prospects = Nothing (most likely) Unpaid work-experience (relatively likely if persistant) Employable As A Trainee (not impossible but very highly sought after)


I did the 6129, 5 months full-time at a reputable college. Used it to struggle into unpaid work-experience after months of searching. Further searching has led just recently to possible offer of paid trainee position.

This suits my circumstances. I've no kids, no mortgage. But if you have... think again...

You have literally, LITERALLY.. no chance of being employed as a plumber, on a plumber's money, after the 6218/6129.

But if you're realistic and prepared to work for free for experience before possibly getting a job as a trainee for a pittance with the chance of, several years down the line, approaching looking like something of a plumber... able to be paid something approaching looking like a plumber's money.. Then yes, you can do that. It's not impossible.

But unless you're either a very talented DIY'er looking to be out on his own in no-time or someone with no real commitments who is prepared to take **** money for a good few years...probably not worth it.

As someone who literally finished the 6128 course a few days ago i'm following this thread and i have a few questions.

What would you call **** money, i have no real commitments apart from needing to rent a place and pay for food/bills, that's if by commitments you mean a family to support etc...

If what you say is true and apprenticeships are nearly dead, with incompetent fast trackers everywhere how are the newer generations starting up in the trade?

I see gas installer vans everywhere, i want to be realistic but i am hoping my two year course was not an utter waste of time but i can't accept its an almost impossible trade to get into, maybe i should start learning electrical installation /sigh

 

[Winston]

I did my 6129 a year ago wrote to countless companies for employment one reply. In the end have had to go out alone, which is hard as you really do not have the experience.

But I have fought on and am starting to get repeat work and reccomendations. But I am very selective as to what I take on, I like a challange but not at my customers cost.

I have found by using my local independant merchant a good source of info and knowledge. I also pass on all my gas enquiries or stuff out of my league to a time served.

It has not been easy setting up on your own there are lots of costs and if it does not fall in line with your turnover and profit you are in trouble.

I did however make a nominal profit in my first year but nothing to get excited about, though I am pleased considering the costs of setting up.

The last month my turnover about £2,500 Gross profit £900.00
This month td about £3,000 Gross profit expected £700.00

I would expect the profit to be higher, but still buying tools as and when I really need them and can justify.

Whatever though do not be taken in by training companies promising the 100k a year I dont think its there.

 

[bez7409]

am i correct in saying that the 6129 is the technical certificate level 3? Are you sure this has lead in as i know the tech cert level 2 does but not sure on the level 3. I am contemplting doing a night course on 6129 as ive already got my NVQ 2 and am looking to build on my qualifications.

 

[keylock000]

reply to readingplumber re lead
i've been doing construction work for 20 plus years and have just done the 6129 C&G
the work on a chimney would normally be done by a roofer but i found the college practical course was simple and i could with ease do lead work to a chimney

but i heard that C& G were going to drop the leadwork on the 6129 as of 2009/10 and we were the last to do this part
shame really

kingm1988

i know a lot of people who do not like the quick route to plumbing 6129 & 6128 ect

i dont think you can learn very much at all from this route but if thats what you wanna do... then do it
it will get you a certificate.... but it will not make you knowledgeable or help you to understand the how and why things are on a site.... somethings you can only learn with on the job practice
thats why there's a difference in the training IE fron City & Guilds to NVQ... it tests your knowhow and why... ect
you will not get the NVQ till you pass this work based tests and will not then get the CSCS or the JIB/PMES cert in your field of whatever you intend to do
but if you like plumbing (Domestic or HVAC as this is the two items you were talking about) then try to get in with a plumbing company

PS a couple of years in college is fun and passes very quickly maybe too quick =(
so think about it as ongoing experience well worth investing

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! All

To get some idea of the difference between C &G and NVQ. Its helpful to understand how NVQ's came about.

In the 1980's it was found that British industry had only about 10% of its workforce with any qualification for the job they where doing. The EU norm was something like 90%.

So what to do?

The government came up with the National Vocational Qualification. What that meant was that inspectors and examiners would go into every industry and test people on their knowledge about the job they where doing.

It was made up of modules, called, if I remember right, Competences toward, and then after gaining so many, they would be awarded an NVQ level 1 - 4.

If you had a C and G this would count as a module toward a NVQ.

So NVQ's are track record based, as well as qualification based and can't really be taught in a college.

Although you can perhaps gain certain modules in college toward an NVQ if they still recognise the C and G as a module.

Also I think in some places you can gain up to Level 2 NVQ on college courses, but obviously you need the work experience to get Level 3 which is probably the one employers want.

One of the old systems seemed the best to me. A person was given 12 months intensive training in a college both practical and theory. Then they went to get a job at Trainee rate and stayed a Trainee for 2 years. As far as I know the companies also got paid for taking Trainees. It was good.

The thing is, I think it probably proved too expensive to run.
And I think I remember, in manufacturing industry, other countries moaned about it not being fair, as it was perhaps seen as supporting industries they where in competition with, so it was against trade agreements. Probably still the same today.

 

[mickwhiteside@t]

Hi

I am just taking on my son as an apprentice plumber. To gain his qualifications through Summit Skils he must go to day release at the local college and do either 6129 or 6128 which are his tech certificates. He then, with the assitance of the college undertakes his NVQ applicable to the course where they come out to site and an NVQ assessor assesses his work. Only on satisfactory completion of both elements will he be issued with a foundation apprenticeship certificate from Summit Skills. That is part one NVQ 2. After that he can stay on at college on day release and earn his tech cert and attempt his NVQ on site based work with NVQ assessors coming to site to check him out. Again on satisfactory completion Summit Skills will award a Modern Apprenticeship Certificate. In total with the college it will take approx 4 years to attain NVQ 3 and a decent apprenticship. But if you follow this link you will see that Summit Skills ask for a lot of different evidence to support both HVACR 6128 and Plumbing 6129, but in essence they both require the tech cert from college and the NVQ applicable.
[DLMURL="http://www.summitskills.org.uk/Apprenticeships/Certification-and-Registration/219"]SummitSkills | Home[/DLMURL] where the fast track system lets a lot down is that it gives the tech cert but not the NVQ, the Tech Cert on its own is worth the square root of zero.

 

[david williams]

the pity is all this 30,000 plumbers jobs going beging is just training company hype.at the moment there are very few jobs out there for fully competant plumbers ,and most employers want 4 to 5 years post training experience before you even get an interveiw,ask your trainer to show you who will employ you and just how many jobs there are out there.

 

[mk79]

After recently completing the 6129 on a 3 month intensive course with a good reputable local college, ive found it most worthwhile and learned lots in a short space of time the best part was it didnt cost me a penny as funding was available through the LSC and was means tested agianst my current circumstances so all the fees where waived completely. Iam now starting partime work as a plumbers mate the pay is poor but it leads onto getting the NVQ then it will be happydays 🙂 ...

 

[justlead1]

A good plumber earns good money, But in response lets train them and earn more without the aggravation. Tread carefully, if you can not get a job close to plumbing with out qualification. In my opinion you wont get one with them. When trying, show passion not intellect, but not to thick. Either put plumbers off. Expect to pay for the privilege. Its one step down from getting a degree. You would be in debt after that. If you turn out good you can earn plenty. But the qualifications you talk of {of which i have a few) will not be cashed at Tesco. In fact during my career (62 to day and under the influence) i can only remember needing them on approx 3 occasions. And they were establishment type jobs when recession occurred. Have a go at helping someone in any aspect of the trade, just get out there and DO IT. Good Luck

 

[WHPES]

I originally cut my teeth on pipeline and heating engineering (technically and degree qualified), with 15 years of industrial design and installation experience, then decided to get into domestics. I did the 6129 course and found that most of it I had far more experience than most of the tutors, however I can see that for those coming into the industry from outside might struggle without the technical experience or background.

What I have found since having my own business is that I completely mop up any pipeline or large bore work in the area as no other plumbers round here have any experience or interest in working on large bore or flanged pipework systems! I can easily undercut the opposition and still make a healthy profit due to their distances.

 

[WaterTight]

But the qualifications you talk of {of which i have a few) will not be cashed at Tesco. In fact during my career (62 to day and under the influence) i can only remember needing them on approx 3 occasions.

From 2011 (or maybe 2012) the law is going to be that you have to either have or be working towards your NVQ to work as a plumber. So one way or another up and coming plumbers are going to have to get those qualifications. And since there are no apprenticeships, it's going to have to be private colleges.

 

[andyg0507]

as of next year (september) there will no longer be a 6129 plumbing course, its going to become a plumbing diploma where there will be nvq modules involved in the course.

so you are going to have to be in employment/self employment to get onto the course in the first place.

apparently this is due to the lack of people actually becoming a plumber once the 6129 has been completed.

 

[WaterTight]

where did you hear that? got a link to a source? sounds interesting

 

[andyg0507]

from my college tutor, hes been going to meetings with city and guilds all over the country about it for a fair few months now.

also think someone else has mantioned it on another thread somewhere,

ill try and find it and post.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-courses/318-nvq2-advice-guidance.html

4th page of thread

 

[Smcart5]

I read that post and i don't understand why if there is not enough qualified people working in the trade after doing a technical certificate then why not offer incentives for companies to train people who have just finished one? :/

 

[joe brown]

why not offer incentives for companies to train people who have just finished one? :/

Great idea , I agree 100%

 

[Bernie2]

The problem is as many will seem to tell you. There seems to be little work out there. If Plumbers are required that badly you would be surprised how quick the controls come off.

In 1963 the year of the big freeze, plumbers on the dole where virtually conscripted into council repair work.

Outside of that, it doesn't matter how well or badly your qualified, its more "Can you do the job!" After all its the product you make that the customer pays for not your qualifications.

You could be a Professor Plumbing Mechanical Engineering but you would probably only get paid the same for washering a tap as a first year Plumber.

Trying to get work, is about selling your wares, like any salesman, not only getting exam passes.

If you notice those who seem to be doing well such as seem to have gone for niche markets. Some specialize in areas others don't do.

The sexy stuff, like central heating repair and installation, seems to be chocker block, with competition, as are kitchen fitting, bathrooms, shower installations and gutter work.

But what about drains?

Commercial and Industrial work?

Sheet work i.e. copper, steel, Nuralite and lead?

Green energies? Voltaic, solar, heat pumps?

Plumbing is a big field, look around for opportunity.

Don't go knocking on doors, go to the factories if you can find any that is and the office blocks looking for work. Its amazing what is out there. Get in with building caretakers and the like and offer bespoke services.

 

[andyg0507]

Hi all,

had chance to speak to my tutor today about what happens next year so thought id share what i was told, and please do not take my word for every comment i write as it has come from my tutor( who is a good one).

the 6129 as of june this year will be no more, and it will become a moduler plumbing course, you will have to do a core module first (like acs) and then complete further modules to complete the course, also in the course is the nvq module, but this will no longer be called nvq.

so the course will be one whole course no more 6129, 6089 etc..

the one thing he did (try explaining to me) is that the health and safety module will be the same for all construction courses( sparkys,brickys,plumbers,joiners)

and the reason for this is (so he told me) is if you find after a few weeks on your chosen course that its not for you, you then have the first base module to go onto another construction trade.

like i said its all a bit sketchy at mo, but im sure all will become clear within a few months.

 

[REDSAW]

The problem is as many will seem to tell you. There seems to be little work out there. If Plumbers are required that badly you would be surprised how quick the controls come off.

In 1963 the year of the big freeze, plumbers on the dole where virtually conscripted into council repair work.

Outside of that, it doesn't matter how well or badly your qualified, its more "Can you do the job!" After all its the product you make that the customer pays for not your qualifications.

You could be a Professor Plumbing Mechanical Engineering but you would probably only get paid the same for washering a tap as a first year Plumber.

Trying to get work, is about selling your wares, like any salesman, not only getting exam passes.

If you notice those who seem to be doing well such as seem to have gone for niche markets. Some specialize in areas others don't do.

The sexy stuff, like central heating repair and installation, seems to be chocker block, with competition, as are kitchen fitting, bathrooms, shower installations and gutter work.

But what about drains?

Commercial and Industrial work?

Sheet work i.e. copper, steel, Nuralite and lead?

Green energies? Voltaic, solar, heat pumps?

Plumbing is a big field, look around for opportunity.

Don't go knocking on doors, go to the factories if you can find any that is and the office blocks looking for work. Its amazing what is out there. Get in with building caretakers and the like and offer bespoke services.

interesting thread bern,
wasnt the big freeze 1961 2' of snow n all that?.

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! Redsaw!

I think it was Boxing day 1962 - March 63.

I was an older apprentice drafted into doing a full Plumbers job by the boss.

Made a small fortune, but young then and had no sense to talk off, so spent it on, motor bike, tape recorder and all kinds of stuff like that. We often worked till 1am in the morning then up at 7 to start again at 8.

 

[Readingplumber]

In response to watertight -

From 2011 (or maybe 2012) the law is going to be that you have to either have or be working towards your NVQ to work as a plumber. So one way or another up and coming plumbers are going to have to get those qualifications. And since there are no apprenticeships, it's going to have to be private colleges.


how would it be policed - Example a builder who does a bit of plumbing but mostly a builder? Or what about the hobbyist who does bits of plumbing for their friends? who can set these laws? who can police them? If i remember rightly the water regulations wanted every one who works on water to be competent - it would just be impossible to monitor or policed.
Do you have a source for the law, i googled it but no avail - Its not from one of these private colleges saying it in their advert to scare people into doing a plumbing course?

Thanks

 

[applicator1]

Hi,

So i have come to the conclusion that i want to be a plumber, and have decided to do so via the private provider route. Reason being that college/apprenticeship would take too long.
My question is, what's the difference between the City & Guilds 6128 and the City & Guilds 6129 qualification. Many providers offer one or the other, each biased towards the one that they provide, claiming that theirs is the more appropriate and 'industry recognized'. I have devoted an unhealthy set of hours each day in search of a definitive answer. But no luck. I simply want to become a plumber, and then move on to be CORGI registered etc...

Im aware that both qualifications will give you the opportunity to gain these credentials. Im also aware the 6128 is a Heating & Ventilation certificate and that the 6129 is a general plumbing one, yet both lead you to getting the full NVQ Level 2 (after all the on-site assessments in a work place etc), which is essentially what you need to be a plumber. But whats the real difference??

It would be great to hear from people in the same boat as me, as i am sure that there are many who have encountered this same dilemma, and probably feel you are left in the middle, and pretty much in the dark, with everyone giving you misleading info, and even plumbers telling you that private providers are a waste of time. I would love to hear from people that have taken these qualification, especially the 6128, as this seems to be the cheaper of the two, but im a bit suspicious as to why that is the case.
Thanks for any help.

Hi, You will find that the 6129 does make you a qualified Plumber. It is a Machanical Engineering Certificate. An NVQ is work based quliforcation which is usually for young people who are on apprenticeships. After you have done your 6129 you will then be able to straight to Gas. The 6129 covers far more and is more intensive and a better qualiforcation than the 6128.
Have fun pipe strangling

 

[REDSAW]

Hi, You will find that the 6129 does make you a qualified Plumber. It is a Machanical Engineering Certificate. An NVQ is work based quliforcation which is usually for young people who are on apprenticeships. After you have done your 6129 you will then be able to straight to Gas. The 6129 covers far more and is more intensive and a better qualiforcation than the 6128.
Have fun pipe strangling

think you may be slightly misled bud,
6129 is a technical certificate to prove you know what your on about.
an nvq proves that you can do what your talking about.

a 6129 is general plumbing.
a 6128 is heating and ventilation.

so if you were leading to gas, which one would be the logical choice out of the 2 above?.🙄

either way really you takes your choice at the end of the day.

 

[philtheflush]

right now for my turn im in to my 2nd year of my technical certificate and about to start of on my own. there will always be people out there in the trade that feel agrieved that they did an apprentiship for so many years and they are the gods of plumbing, if you go it alone because theres no apprentice jobs out there or no one will take you on because the qualificaton isnt good enough good luck to you. actually the commitment of doing the course without pay is proof enough your determined to learn. everyone makes mistakes and thats how we learn if you do go it alone dont charge the earth and explain i think people will understand especially in this financial climate. and using this forum will also help you, if the 6129 was no good well then why is the government so stringent with gas safety. feel the force and get out there you can do it after all they did.

 

[murat61]

Traditional route = 4/5 year apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships = Now effectively non-existant

Fast-Track Courses = Booming

Result = Too many fast-trackers

Fast-Trackers = Not plumbers

Fast-Tracker's Job Prospects = Nothing (most likely) Unpaid work-experience (relatively likely if persistant) Employable As A Trainee (not impossible but very highly sought after)


I did the 6129, 5 months full-time at a reputable college. Used it to struggle into unpaid work-experience after months of searching. Further searching has led just recently to possible offer of paid trainee position.

This suits my circumstances. I've no kids, no mortgage. But if you have... think again...

You have literally, LITERALLY.. no chance of being employed as a plumber, on a plumber's money, after the 6218/6129.

But if you're realistic and prepared to work for free for experience before possibly getting a job as a trainee for a pittance with the chance of, several years down the line, approaching looking like something of a plumber... able to be paid something approaching looking like a plumber's money.. Then yes, you can do that. It's not impossible.

But unless you're either a very talented DIY'er looking to be out on his own in no-time or someone with no real commitments who is prepared to take **** money for a good few years...probably not worth it.

so u would recommend colleges ?
i have no experience about plumbing i found a few course but they offer 27 days practical course but other colleges are offerin 9 months course.

 

[Bakiibak]

Hi, guys anyone out there who is a whiz on explaining purging volumes U6 metric up to 28mm pipe......?? I will try and explain what is confusing me so bear with me...hear goes, I have a few questions got my exams due soon so really got to get this in my head (i know you will all understand what am goin through!!)

I know the amounts 0.01m3 0.35 ft3 etc but don't know how we get to these figures. I understand its 5 x the badge cap. and 4 x for purge and cap but how do we get to the figure 0.01 when the badge cap. is V = 2dm3 (G4) am I doing this right assuming 2dm3 /1000 = 0.002 then multiply by 5 to get 0.01 m3 therefore 4 x = 0.008 (0.01m3) is this correct?

Also not quite understanding how the imperial calc. work out in my notes:
5 x 0.071 = 0.355ft3 I understand that!! but for 4 x 0.071 = 0.284 ft3 is this correct??

in my notes I have 4 x 0.142 = 0.568ft3 which one is right my notes cap is suddenly 0.0142
regards dave

 

[fuzzy]

The 6128/6129 won't give you the NVQ, The NVQ is a different Qualification to the City and Guilds.

City and Guilds- Theory and practice.

NVQ- Work based learning and tests.

the NVQ is C&G?????????????? this post is confusing

Hi, You will find that the 6129 does make you a qualified Plumber. It is a Machanical Engineering Certificate. An NVQ is work based quliforcation which is usually for young people who are on apprenticeships. After you have done your 6129 you will then be able to straight to Gas. The 6129 covers far more and is more intensive and a better qualiforcation than the 6128.
Have fun pipe strangling

sorry but this post is wrong.

The 6129 tec cert is part of the NVQ for a start, you cannot get an NVQ without getting all the units from the 6129 tec cert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the 6129 is plumbing and the 6128 heating and vent, one is not better than the other but different trades although related. i know i did the H&V to begin with and then the plumbing later in life

am i correct in saying that the 6129 is the technical certificate level 3? Are you sure this has lead in as i know the tech cert level 2 does but not sure on the level 3. I am contemplting doing a night course on 6129 as ive already got my NVQ 2 and am looking to build on my qualifications.

there aRE 2 6129 tec certs, level 2 and level 3

 

[Paul Cockhill]

HI

I have done the 6128 course, alot of theory and not much practise. It was impossible to work for a plumber because they are just not interested, so i have gone out on the self employed route and have picked up jobs with letting agencies and through leaflet drops. However what I have found is I need experience to do something confidently and it has been a real dilemma. I have had to be brave and take on jobs that would take an experienced plumber half the time I have taken but I want to make sure that I have done a good job. I have been lucky in that I have been working for my brothers building company and doing alot of their plumbing jobs, which has helped on the experience.

Going back to your point, 6128 was good for basic theory and practise but go for the NVQ's as soon as you can

 

[keylock000]

Hi dudes

6128 and 6128 levels 2 and 3 are city and guilds certificates in two different disciplines and is a technical certificate in that field

You can complete lvl 2 and 3 in either or both if you wish, but to get the NVQ you must first complete the lvl 2 NVQ and then go on to lvl 3 NVQ

6088 is the NVQ for HVAC and 6089 is the NVQ for Plumbing



I have been told that the ACS will not accept anyone who has no work based practice (NVQs) so an NVQ is required to complete the ACS (Basic Gas qualifications tests)

You may have heard otherwise, if so tell us your storey

Regards Keylock000

 

[keylock000]

Hi dudes

6128 and 6128 levels 2 and 3 are city and guilds certificates in two different disciplines and is a technical certificate in that field

You can complete lvl 2 and 3 in either or both if you wish, but to get the NVQ you must first complete the lvl 2 NVQ and then go on to lvl 3 NVQ

6088 is the NVQ for HVAC and 6089 is the NVQ for Plumbing



I have been told that the ACS will not accept anyone who has no work based practice (NVQs) so an NVQ is required to complete the ACS (Basic Gas qualifications tests)

You may have heard otherwise, if so tell us your storey

Regards Keylock000

just to add to this link.... if you have a local (or not so local) gas safe registered plumber willing to give you some time ( and this will normally be unpaid ) on gas training, lets say about 6 months experience (which is a minimum amount of training) you can contact your local ACS dept and get entered onto the course as a catagory 2 candidate providing you have your lvl 2 and 3 cerificate 6129 as proof of ..ect ect... without the need to gain a full NVQ of any type....so my above comments are slightly misleading...sorry chaps

 

[fuzzy]

thought 6129 only made you a cat 3, nvq makes you a cat 2 and previous avs or acops a cAT 1

 

[applicator1]

Hi, this may not sit too well with you but most plumbers won't recognise either quliforcation as very respectable. There two ways that one can go. The first is to go for the level two (I would say the 6129) but you would also need to get level three to even stand a chance of getting a job. It doesn't matter how you get level two then. The other way is to go for level two and then get Water Regulations, Unvented Sysytems and Energy effiency certificates. This is a shorter route where you can also venture off on different tangents. You will find that you will learn far more in six by working in the trade than you will on any of the courses. For now go and help a plumber out part time for awhile or on weekends.

 

[fuzzy]

Hi, this may not sit too well with you but most plumbers won't recognise either quliforcation as very respectable. There two ways that one can go. The first is to go for the level two (I would say the 6129) but you would also need to get level three to even stand a chance of getting a job. It doesn't matter how you get level two then. The other way is to go for level two and then get Water Regulations, Unvented Sysytems and Energy effiency certificates. This is a shorter route where you can also venture off on different tangents. You will find that you will learn far more in six by working in the trade than you will on any of the courses. For now go and help a plumber out part time for awhile or on weekends.

or get them all?

 

[keylock000]

Category 2 applicants must provide evidence that they hold qualifications relevant to the
area of gas work they are seeking to obtain qualification in.

Examples of appropriate qualifications include:

1. Plumbing craft qualifications or N/SVQ (oil and/or solid fuel options) - suitable initially
for domestic or commercial central, water heating or pipe work installation

2. Pipe fitter/welder craft qualification or N/SVQ - suitable initially for commercial pipe
work, pipe work commissioning and meter installation

3. Heating and ventilation craft qualification or N/SVQ - suitable initially for commercial
pipe work and appliance installation

4. Refrigeration engineer / fitter craft qualification or N/SVQ - suitable initially for​

commercial appliance and pipe work installation.

regards keylock

 

[jonesy76]

People need to realise there is no quick way to become a plumber even if you do a fast track course then do ur level 2 nvq straight after that u still wont have enougth experience to carry out the jobs ur required to do. I did my 6129 last year and currently doing my nvq level 2 college dosent really prepare you for what you come up against in the work place save your money and goto college and then use your qualification toget a plumber to take you on to do ur nvq2

 

[Avatar]

You could have the whole lot:

lvl 2

lvl 3

nvq

acs

gas safe

And still no one will employ you - want to know why?

The first thing they will ask you is not how many quals you have, rather how many years on the tools you have . . .

If its only a couple you are still only going to be considered an apprentice, and the bottom line is that all your qualifications are balls, unless you have at least 6 years in the trade.

No one will employ you with less - and even when you have the experience, you still wont get a job cause there are loads of guys in the same boat!

I work as a troubleshooter on commercial properties, and in housing estates, sorting all their complicated plumbing problems, and systems built over 25 years ago.

Do you know what qualifications I have - 6129 only no NVQ . . .

You know what, no one gives a damn either, cause they know I can do the job and am experienced.

Thats the bottom line!

 

[fuzzy]

are you advising people only to do the 6129 even though its not a full qualification?

 

[Avatar]

Not really - I didn't really learn much from the 6129. It gave me a basic grounding in plumbing, but I am not sure that I could have got a lot of that from reading books . . .

I am saying - get experience!

The 6129 and others are useless without it. Ideally get an apprentiship (if you are young enough), or get out there and help someone really doing the job. You will learn more from a few months hands on, than the whole 6129 qualification.

A friend and collegue of mine, is 30 years in the trade and does not have any qualifications (bar gas safe), and he advised me that he didn't need nVQ's and the like to get work.

Get the 6129 from college - it is not worth the £5000 the private course provders are charging for it. Get some work experience while you do this. At least this way you keep your options open!

 

[fuzzy]

Not really - I didn't really learn much from the 6129. It gave me a basic grounding in plumbing, but I am not sure that I could have got a lot of that from reading books . . .

I am saying - get experience!

The 6129 and others are useless without it. Ideally get an apprentiship (if you are young enough), or get out there and help someone really doing the job. You will learn more from a few months hands on, than the whole 6129 qualification.

A friend and collegue of mine, is 30 years in the trade and does not have any qualifications (bar gas safe), and he advised me that he didn't need nVQ's and the like to get work.

Get the 6129 from college - it is not worth the £5000 the private course provders are charging for it. Get some work experience while you do this. At least this way you keep your options open!

The 6129 is designed to give candidates an underpinning knowledge of plumbing. You agree it gave you that and therefore i would argue that you are proof that the qualification has worked.

Plumbing qualifications are like any other, they aim to provide the basic knowledge and skills to build upon, like driving, surveying, bricklaying, gardening etc etc

 

[MickySkinn]

Hi guys, I’m just reading through all this and I’m still none the wiser!

I passed my C&G 6129 Level 2 in 2007, and have been doing domestic jobs with knowledge gained from that course, but now I’m looking to progress. I’ve just been given a place at a college (not fast track) for HVAC Level 3, but now I’m wondering if I should be doing the C&G 6129 Level 3 as I wish to continue in domestic with a view to becoming Gas Safe registered in the future. Any advice which would be the best route to take?

Basically, I eventually want to become a self-employed Gas Safe Registered Plumber for domestic properties.

Thanks up front for any helpful comments!

PS Kingm1988: Where are you now after posting this thread in Feb 09?

 

[Mike-H]

i done me citys and guilds 6129 level 2&3 which took 3 years in college then got an apprenticeship with balfour beatty engineering services ( who are taking on apprentices in the northwest at the moment) which my work based training for me nvqs and gas took 3 years so all in all its took me 6 years if you start college with a company you will get your nvq2&3, water regs, un-vented, and your gas quals in 4 years. even though ive had 4 years experience now you still learn stuff everyday they dont teach you enough in college you need to be learning your trade day in day out in my opinion.

 

[tackleburger]

i done me citys and guilds 6129 level 2&3 which took 3 years in college then got an apprenticeship with balfour beatty engineering services ( who are taking on apprentices in the northwest at the moment) which my work based training for me nvqs and gas took 3 years so all in all its took me 6 years if you start college with a company you will get your nvq2&3, water regs, un-vented, and your gas quals in 4 years. even though ive had 4 years experience now you still learn stuff everyday they dont teach you enough in college you need to be learning your trade day in day out in my opinion.

6129 in three years you must have been rubbish that course is only a weeks not years. You must have struggled but good to see it worked out in the end even though you couldn't do it at first.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i agree even doing one or two evenings a week it shouldn't have taken three years.

 

[fuzzy]

6129 in three years you must have been rubbish that course is only a weeks not years. You must have struggled but good to see it worked out in the end even though you couldn't do it at first.

the 6129 i supposed to take 450 glh (from memory) if the centre hasnt delivered that amount of training then you havnt got from it what you could have

 

[Mike-H]

i left school at 16 and done full time college till i was 19 passed all me exams first time and me gas first time am fully qual commercial gas plumber am 23 years of age earned 43 grand last year cant be that rubbish ??

 

[MickySkinn]

Hello again people, does anyone have any advice as to my earlier quetstion? It's the last one on page 5 of this thread.Thanks.

 

[pobsdad]

Don't have a clue about all these modern qualifications,I did my time in the early 80's,when an apprenticeship was the ONLY way to go.And it lasted at least a thousand years (or was that a thousand backhanders?).I lost all my certs years ago,but have never once been asked for any proof,except GS.I have known qualified,working plumbers who I wouldn't trust to fix a puncture,and unquallified DIYers who can tie me in knots.We can all thread a nail (screw it) now and then,certs just say we shouldn't do it as often as someone with no proof of competence.You can read all the books you want,but they won't help you smell a gas leak.On the other hand,experience doesn't give you the maths,etc, you'll need in court!This industry needs love slaves!

 

[Heliguy]

Hiya all,
I`m about to quit my job of 5 yrs and go back to collage to train for my c+g 6129 over a 15 week period at the cost of £2300 :-(
I`m 33 yrs of age with a family and I`m a little concerend about what next!
After reading many posts/threads I believe I have to take the nvq2 which requires a work placement. I hear from all you guys that this can be near impossible these days.
I dont want to pay all this money and the outcome will end in a dead.

 

[fuzzy]

big risk mate, its up to you but its a big risk and a lot of money for just a tech cert

 

[Rossi46]

Fools gold is what these courses deliver, if you think otherwise you are a gullable, naive idiot.

 

[Andymav]

when i did my city and guilds 6128 it covered all aspects of plumbing including industrial it took me 2 years i done everything from copper pipework, plastic, and lcs pipework i was assessed by city and guilds assessors at the college my work was thoroughly assessed and passed off, my course included domestic installations standard of work was scrutinized to ensure a professional job was carried out, i was even trained in power flushing i found it a well managed course and tutors were very helpful and thorough, since finishing my course i have had no problem with finding work i have done all manor of site jobs and employers have been very encouraged the 6128 is the new route you take once i got onsite i was nvq assessed i had to build my own portfolio but so far so good ;-)

 

[samh]

Doing the 6129 in a year, at the end I get 3 years to find my work placement for an NVQ before the technical certificate becomes useless/nullified etc.
Last year I did the NOCN level 2 (the practical work portfolio is pretty much identical to the one I am doing this year)

Most people seem unwilling to even give work experience but I have managed to get two weeks here and there. Just trying to get as much work experience with as many different plumbers as I can right now, I can pick up different tips and tricks, more experience and hopefully one will decide to take me on for my NVQ and then as a proper apprentice. I know its a bit of a far fetched dream really but its better than nothing.

 

[Bernie2]

When I was a trainer, there were plenty of training providers, the main problem was getting placements. Its probably a lot of red tape, but then you do need some to stop exploition of the trainee.

 

[kirkgas]

Hi, You will find that the 6129 does make you a qualified Plumber. It is a Machanical Engineering Certificate. An NVQ is work based quliforcation which is usually for young people who are on apprenticeships. After you have done your 6129 you will then be able to straight to Gas. The 6129 covers far more and is more intensive and a better qualiforcation than the 6128.
Have fun pipe strangling

the 6129 is not accepted by bpes to allow you to do a Category 2 gas course as it is a technical cert, not a practical one, i will prob get a dig from a mod for saying the next bit, but it is fact as i was part of the conversation, but there is one well known training provider who does not make this clear at all, and i would go as far as to say that they fudge the issue completely by making all sorts of statements that by doing the 6129 you are "half way to becoming gas registered" and that is a direct quote from their sales muppet. however on completion of the 6129 you then use that as a stepping stone to go for NVQ2 which allows you to do the Category 2 course, which adds another £4k+ to your bill, as i said i only know that bpec wont accept the 6129 as entry to Cat 2 so they are saying you are not a plumber, dont know if other certification bodies allow it , but given the nature of the business i would expect all of them to accept the minimum they can to allow people to train therefore making the certification body more money.

 

[kirkgas]

thought 6129 only made you a cat 3, nvq makes you a cat 2 and previous avs or acops a cAT 1

100% CORRECT, but you can be a CAT 3 without the 6129, so if the question is "MUST you have 6129 to be CAT 3?" the anwer is NO, however if the question is "will 6129 help you?" then that answer is different for everyone, although i cant see it not helping via some previuos knowledge as it all helps

 

[kirkgas]

Category 2 applicants must provide evidence that they hold qualifications relevant to the
area of gas work they are seeking to obtain qualification in.

Examples of appropriate qualifications include:

1. Plumbing craft qualifications or N/SVQ (oil and/or solid fuel options) - suitable initially
for domestic or commercial central, water heating or pipe work installation

2. Pipe fitter/welder craft qualification or N/SVQ - suitable initially for commercial pipe
work, pipe work commissioning and meter installation

3. Heating and ventilation craft qualification or N/SVQ - suitable initially for commercial
pipe work and appliance installation

4. Refrigeration engineer / fitter craft qualification or N/SVQ - suitable initially for​

commercial appliance and pipe work installation.

regards keylock

i agree with what you have posted here, but bpec will not accept the 6129 as a plumbing qualification

 

[Andymav]

the 6129 is being axed or it has been the 6128 is the new route and teaches pretty much all plumbing principles and city and guilds assessment the top up to the 6128 is the 6088 which includes onsite assessment =nvq level 2 6128 is the new accepted plumbing qualification i have experience of this as do many friends of mine who have done this course its easier and you learn more

 

[Andymav]

i did more plumbing on the 6128 in 2 years than what i would of done in 4 years at college far more practical assessments, the exams for the 6128 were 100% pass marks any less was a retake so anyone that says its a low pass acceptance is wrong most of the exams were done on the city and guilds online assessment i didn't even have to do my cscs card health and safety test as the 6128 includes this during this course i recived my bpec unvented hot water storage systems , water regulations and part p

 

[fuzzy]

andy,

the 6128 is not the replacement for the 6129, they are both tech certs and are both on their way out

the replacement plumbing qual is the 6189 nvq diploma, there is no tech cert

the 6128 in a private centre is exactly the same as the 6128 in a college. there is no possibility that the assessments at one centre are different from another

 

[samh]

Had my cold water systems exam today as part of my 6129 today. Passed with 87.5%.
Desperate to find some work for me to start building a portfolio towards my NVQ level 2.

 

[PlumBum86]

I am half way through the 6129 and i think its great! It is the one you want. It covers all aspecs of plumbing from depth of notches in joists to central heating systems to full bathroom installations. NVQ level 2 is the industry recognised qualification as you can only get this by being assesed on site ie you will need to be working in the trade to enroll on this course. You can register as self employed and go and find your own plumbing work to be assed on.

Though they are planning to merge the 6129 and NVQ2 into a diploma, which i believe means that you will need to be working in the trade to get on the course (bloody stupid idea!) i think they are planning to introduce this diploma in september 2012 though you'll have to check with your local college.

I hope this helps, and good luck!! 🙂

 

[keylock000]

The 6129 is designed to give candidates an underpinning knowledge of plumbing. You agree it gave you that and therefore i would argue that you are proof that the qualification has worked.

Plumbing qualifications are like any other, they aim to provide the basic knowledge and skills to build upon, like driving, surveying, bricklaying, gardening etc etc

yeah you gotta have the quals ...but you need the hands on as well
and even with the quals you'll struggle to get work unless they know you can do the job....
but colleges never show you how to work onsite... i dont think they ever did, thats always been the sitework side of it
do you need the NVQ?..... not unless you want to go out of the uk to work, like Ausie or NZ for example require the full cert
regards keylock000

 

[fuzzy]

do you need the NVQ?.....

if you want a jib card to work on site and if you want the recognised qual as a plumber yes

 

[Suraj Patel]

module 5 awnaser ?

 

[PlumbBobBob]

module 5 awnaser ?

what's the question? not that we will give you the answer but we will probably point you in the right direction to work it out for yourself. the thing is you are supposed to be learning which you wont if we give you the answer.

 

[850Rick]

Im doing the 6129 as well half way through my first year,i dont practical and theory and you get assest as well to prove you can do the job folloed by exams