c/o call out

[andyg0507]

alarm was going full pelt so they say, dont think it was windy what so ever, but then again i was tucked up in bed at 4am

 

[bennygas]

seems like a long time for the CO detector to trigger - presumably the fire was turned off sometime earlier in the night. seems like a long delay to me? did they say what time the alarm went off, and if so, how long after the appliance being turned off did it go off? I don't suppose they've got any high level openings in the house have they (e.g. velux's etc)? if would suggest imho that if thermal inversion is the cause of the problem, an extractive terminal is not necessarily to make the situation safe under all foreseeable circumstances - they depend on the wind to help extract the pocs, while thermal inversion can occur even in relatively still conditions. I don't know what the job's like, but perhaps a possible scenario might be something like this? - fire producing some CO as result of combustion (as many ILFEs do - hence the nice solid fuel-esque flame picture (assuming of course, it's the flame picture intended by the manufacturer), fire goes off, people go to bed, flue cools, remnants of pocs linger in flue, people open window or velux upstairs, thermal inversion occurs, alarm goes off. it's a tenuous scenario of course, but maybe it could perhaps give another avenue to your investigation? a great deal of this will of course depend on the presence of any high level openings, and their relative postion to the flue terminal.

 

[andyg0507]

no high level openings, customer was down stairs with newborn with fire off, went to be around an hour later c/o alarm activated.

 

[mikegas]

Did you check that the aeration setting set for coals, did you check the cooker?

 

[andyg0507]

cooker was checked, coals were as per m.i's, its a mystery tbh if the flames werent as yellow as they were i would of put it down to faulty c/o alarm but to be on the safe side cut and capped, and left them with a new c/o alarm, customer wants fire out and electric one putting in now, theyve only just started using it with having a new born and being woken up at silly o'clock to warm the room in which there in.

 

[Backboiler]

Was it an ILFE, LFE or radiant? The burner may have a fine crack and the split may open when the fire warms up which could explain why it burns yellow after a period of time

 

[andyg0507]

burner was checked but to the human eye nothing was visible.

 

[andyg0507]

oh and an ilfe

 

[AWheating]

possible atmospheric pressure changes? or reverse fluing? or even neighbours/intergral leaks in stack.

you could suggest that the chimney be cleaned and tested by a registered sweep to ensure no flue problems. It does seem a odd time for the alarm to go off.

was the co alarm in date and fitted correctly?

 

[andyg0507]

co alarm fixed to wall 1.5m from ground, flue integrity looked spot on, managed to get me skinny little head up to look, customer is now going electric fire.

 

[CMairiD]

Sorry if I missed it, but were they any gas appliances in operation at 4 am? Did they say when the last appliance was used (hour before, two, etc)?

 

[andyg0507]

no gas appliances running at the time only fire 1 hour before, it was one of the first questions i asked upon arrival, with these situations theres so many things you have to take into account and check, hence my late arrival home last night:yes:

 

[AWheating]

smoke test 1 would be needed if flue integrity is in question.

tell them to keep the co dector even with the ele fire just incase it was next door/external problem.

 

[Backboiler]

Most ILFE fires have OSD's so I'm wondering why the OSD didn’t shut the gas valve off before the CMD activated. We know ILFE's burn rich with a yellow flame, we also know yellow flames produce CO; we expect it. We also know that 99.99% of the time the POC goes up the flue, as it did in this case (when you tested). In my opinion I don't think there's anything wrong with the fire but I would have acted exactly the same as you; considering you had a worried young mum.
My guess is a faulty CO detector; but this is difficult to ascertain. They have a shelf life of about 6 years, how old is it? Do the batteries need replacing? Where is the CO detector positioned? Hopefully more than 1m away from a heat source and not above the fire surround? Has the CO detector been installed to the MI's?

 

[Pssst]

The good thing about CODs is that they generate yet another income stream for GSRs,much if which isnt really necessary.

For eg,BG pushes and sells CODs to its customers. When they fail they might ring the ESP who may then issue various warning notices. The follow up checks may then generate work and hence cash. Everyones a winner.

Leaving that aside,there is far too much paranoia about CO. Appliances have never been safer and CODs are often not fitted correctly and/or are unreliable. Why do so many homes have CODs but not flammable gas detectors? Could that be a new income stream? flog your customers methane alarms. You never know,they might have a gas leak !

 

[bennygas]

there's a part of me that thinks the adoption of forced draught technology was a step back in terms of safety in favour of efficiency. had to happen, but I think there's increased potential for risk.

 

[arran197]

If the fire was ok when it was on then I doubt it'll be the fire at cause. Probably the alarm itself. Has it got a memory on it so you can check the PPM level?

Had a few people ring me up on call out for those stupid patches that have turned slightly darker after being fitted 6 years ago!

 

[andyg0507]

no memory on alarm but old alarm was replaced with a new fire angel, and fitted.

 

[Pssst]

I agree though in theory it should be possible to have both. The bit thats missing is high quality training and understanding of whats going on. Old stle natural draught burners had a high safety margin whereas the margin is much narrower in forced draught burners.