Felt horrible today

[cr0ft]

Had to have that chat with one of our apprentices. A really nice lad with a great work ethic. The problem is he is a complete biff with a pair of adjustable spanners and just can't get used to using them properly. He's never going to be a natural plumber, after 6 months you usually get a good idea whether someone has the dexterity to do the job or not.

It's really hard as he's always on time for work and doesn't grumble about doing any job. I've decided to see if I can get him on the electrical course as I think he would be better suited to that.

Have any of you been in this situation where someone just isn't suited to the trade they've chosen but they tick all the boxes in terms of the sort of employee you want? How did you deal with it?

 

[Millsy 82]

I think 6 months is too soon to tell. People learn at different rates and those that are useless at 6 months can still make great plumbers and heating engineers.

I have had 4 apprentices 3 of which have done well 2 of them were useless at 1 year let alone 6 months.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

My 2 are hopeless, but I'll give them their time then 1 defo for the pump but the other has only been with us a year so still has time to get better.

 

[Paulplumb]

Had to have that chat with one of our apprentices. A really nice lad with a great work ethic. The problem is he is a complete biff with a pair of adjustable spanners and just can't get used to using them properly. He's never going to be a natural plumber, after 6 months you usually get a good idea whether someone has the dexterity to do the job or not.

It's really hard as he's always on time for work and doesn't grumble about doing any job. I've decided to see if I can get him on the electrical course as I think he would be better suited to that.

Have any of you been in this situation where someone just isn't suited to the trade they've chosen but they tick all the boxes in terms of the sort of employee you want? How did you deal with it?

Maybe it's the teacher :30: LOL

 

[cr0ft]

Could be indeed! I don't think I can teach dexterity though, I'm not that good! If someone can't use a set of adjustables after 6 months without fumbling them all over the place it's time for a change of plan imo. My view is I don't want to waste 2 years of his life if he's clearly not going to make it plumbing. Better to change him over to a trade he is better suited to and happy with imo.

 

[wetdrip]

What's wrong with him going out and buying a set of spanners that fit the job/nut in hand.

 

[Rickster123]

Is he happy plumbing tho crofty? Seems a bit harsh. I'd love to find an apprentice who's " always on time for work and doesn't grumble about doing any job" the rest will come in time. Different people learn at different speeds. But if he's not happy doing what he's doing then fair enough.
That said I appreciate you're running a business so he needs to be cost effective.

 

[cr0ft]

I asked him that today. Said yes when it went well but the issue is today he was on site with me for 5 hours. The job would have only taken me 3 hours on my own. Everything he touched turned to poo. Going to give him a chance as a sparky if he wants to but it's just not working out for him plumbing wise.

 

[Millsy 82]

That said I appreciate you're running a business so he needs to be cost effective.

I think that's half the problem now, when I was at 6 months I was earning £1 an hour (this was 1998 so not that long ago) so any employer can lose £8 a day. Now they have to be paid a lot more so people don't give them the time anymore.

I'm not saying use them for slave labour but what they are learning should come before money.

Croft I still fumble my tools now, last week dropped a screw driver behind a cylinder, Monday I fumbled my spanner and dropped it on my head.

 

[Millsy 82]

I asked him that today. Said yes when it went well but the issue is today he was on site with me for 5 hours. The job would have only taken me 3 hours on my own. Everything he touched turned to poo. Going to give him a chance as a sparky if he wants to but it's just not working out for him plumbing wise.

What was he doing?

 

[Millsy 82]

At 6 months I had just started hanging rads and soldering the odd joint that wasn't near anything so I couldn't burn anything.

 

[Nostrum]

Sounds more like your losing patience with him as opposed to you being concerned about him ever making it, if I'm honest.

Not being disrespectful to you, but you do seem to be quite forceful in pushing your business forward in many ways. That's understandable, but what I've found is that you can't expect your employees to have the same drive or ethics to the business as you have!

I agree with millsy though, I started of on £50 a week. Apprentices are on much more now which adds a degree of financial pressure to the employer.

The last guy I trained was useless for a couple of years, to the point where I barely gave him anything to do, it just slowed me down.

He works for himself now and has a really good work ethic, he subs to me as and when.

I wouldn't throw the towel in just yet with this guy, he's showing a lot of desirable skills, even if holding a spanner isn't one of them and electrical is even more fiddly!

 

[cr0ft]

What was he doing?

Trying to change a set of basin taps in situ. Then tried a set of bath taps in situ. The issue is he actually can't use the tools in situ. I've had quite a few apprentices now and to be honest only one has made the grade with me through to the end. Unfortunately HMRC tells us we have to pay apprentices minimum wage from 19 which is actually quite a lot for a small business if someone can't do the job. I blame them as before you could keep the guys on apprentice rates for 4 years which put a lot less pressure on them. It's a really tall ask from an 18 year old, I do get that. Problem is that 6 months in I can't be paying someone to slow me down, it doesn't make business sense at all.

Like I've said to him, I'm not expecting him to be quick just now or to know everything but I do expect him to be able to use the tools effectively 6 months in.

The issue isn't something that can be taught either. He just doesn't have the required dexterity and ability to work in really confined spaces that the trade demands. At least by telling him now he has 6 months to look into other trades and it actually takes the pressure off him. He knows he's not delivering on the plumbing at all and it's putting undue pressure on the lad which is making him spiral. I've told him whatever happens he will still have a job with me if he wants.

He'll be well suited to electrics if he wants to do that. It's much rarer to need to use tools in confined spaces doing electrical work and he showed today he understands an S-Plan system, something a lot of electricians never do tbh.

 

[cr0ft]

Your right, I am losing patience with him sadly. I've had enough apprentices working for me now to know where I expect the guys to be at certain stages in their apprenticeship. There's obviously a bit of leeway there depending on how fast people learn. He's no where near where he needs to be now and I genuinely don't see potential for him to improve.

I'm definitely forceful in pushing my business forward but that's the reason they've both got this opportunity in the first place. I definitely do instill high standards into the lads. I'm afraid they knew it was going to be that way from the start - one of the perks of working for an ex-military boss 🙂 On the plus side, they get a generous AL allowance and are both paid well in excess of the minimum wage required for where they are.

My issue is I'm not looking for people who will get through their apprenticeship and leave, I'm looking for people who will work with my business in the longer term. Because of that, I do expect a lot because they will be representing my business on their own eventually.

Hope this makes sense!!

Sounds more like your losing patience with him as opposed to you being concerned about him ever making it, if I'm honest.

Not being disrespectful to you, but you do seem to be quite forceful in pushing your business forward in many ways. That's understandable, but what I've found is that you can't expect your employees to have the same drive or ethics to the business as you have!

I agree with millsy though, I started of on £50 a week. Apprentices are on much more now which adds a degree of financial pressure to the employer.

The last guy I trained was useless for a couple of years, to the point where I barely gave him anything to do, it just slowed me down.

He works for himself now and has a really good work ethic, he subs to me as and when.

I wouldn't throw the towel in just yet with this guy, he's showing a lot of desirable skills, even if holding a spanner isn't one of them and electrical is even more fiddly!

 

[parkesy_plumb]

sounds to me like the kid is nervous and wants to impress you crofty .. i was same when i started at 16 really wanted to be like the qualified lads but lacked confidence. He sounds like a good kid though give him a chance

 

[Masood]

sounds to me like the kid is nervous and wants to impress you crofty .. i was same when i started at 16 really wanted to be like the qualified lads but lacked confidence. He sounds like a good kid though give him a chance

I'm getting a similar impression. Is he fumbling through nerves and trying to work faster than he can? At 6 months tool usage won't be second nature to him yet, the "feel" won't have developed. How is he if you give him a task to do by himself when he thinks you're not watching?

 

[Killy Bing]

I was useless the first year, maybe a year and a half.
Have a chat about how he feels, what he wants to do, how much pressure he feels under.
also how he wants to pregress.

he may well be a good sparky or appliance only gas engineer in time.

Dexterity wise I'm awfull, i've got both dyspraxia and im also dislexic
ontop of that I never developed fine motor movement in my hands or my left arm.
I had the same issue with my mouth so I didn't start to talk till I was 6/7
That means my writing is at best that of a seven year olds and I seriously struggle to do things first time off. It's only with continued repetition I get any small level of proficiency.

now my mum was told to keep me "happy and comfortable" by quite a few professionals while I was a kid.

now the reason I'm a gas engineer and working in this industry is because my trainer stuck by me despite an uphill struggle.

that paid off on both our parts and I would say I've turned out pretty well.

not all of our best skills come naturally to us.

some people can be an exceptional natural at doing something but never be able to progress down the line!


Do do talk to him and give him a little longer, he may be cracking under the pressure to earn you money.

 

[bright spark]

Well all I can say is that I've worked with a couple of clown apprentices over the years. Some come good, others don't. Working with tools can be fiddly alright. It's your call at the end of the day. Maybe have a decent chat with him, give him another 6 months. Maybe not.
he sounds interested enough and turns up, a lot to b said for that.
We've all been dopey apprentices as one stage. Some of us have even grown out of it.
Just ask the lad what he thinks, and let him know what he needs to step it up on.
Myself, I've had apprentices where ye nearly hav to call to their houses to wake em in d morning.
Good luck either way

 

[tomplumb83]

This comes up alot on here. 6months is no where near long enough imo
I find it hard to believe he cant use a spanner though?
It sounds more like he's lacking in experience and will be under pressure if your watching him.
I never worked with the bloke who paid my wages so could get away with a lot more
Ive never had an apprentice but I expect if they were on site it would be a lot easier to learn too, so can he not be given repetative work till he's good
If he can tie his shoe laces I doubt its anything to do with dexterity?!

I learnt very little from my employees. Can you not encourage him to do small barrow jobs? He'll soon learn. Then he will leave you and go on his own!

Is he any good at making tea / chatting to customers? If he is, send him my way!

 

[cr0ft]

Hi all. After sleeping on it decided to see how things went today. Had him over at my house today doing a few plumbing related jobs away from the customer when there's not the perceived time rush to get things done to get onto the next job.

Did some plumbing underneath a kitchen cabinet for me today. All good and no leaks.
Got him to tighten up our bath taps which had come loose completely. Left him to crack on with this on his own as I couldn't really add much standing over watching him. He got that done in 15 minutes or so.

Back on the job this afternoon and fixing a basin. He drilled right through the wall into the room next to the en-suite we were working in. I tried to be cool about it, not wanting to put him under any undue pressure. Told him he could fill the wall just now and repaint it for the customer one weekend. The customer said not to worry about it so he's ok there. I decided to try a different tact today and let him crack on and just call me if he needed help and I'm not convinced it worked very well today but such is life!

Scratching my head why he is fine working at my house and then really struggles on the jobs. On the way home in the van tonight he starts talking to me about his grandad who it turns out is dying at the moment. He's spending every night over there to spend as much time with him as he can before he passes.

Really wanted to shake him and say why didn't you tell me about this earlier lol. His view is he wanted to keep coming into work to take his mind off things. I told him that this wasn't a good job to be coming into if your mind was on other things and that he should take a bit of time off to spend with his family.

The general consensus on here is to give him a bit more time so I will see how he improves (or not) over the next 6 months. I'm not sure he will make it but I really hope he does.

Will see what happens but I get the impression now he's just a young lad struggling with trying to impress a boss and deal with what's a very hard thing to deal with at home.