Ideal Classic FF230 British Gas Declared boiler "At risk"

[Carlos_UK]

Hi, I'm hoping someone here can help me as I'm getting nowhere with British Gas on this matter!

On Thursday, BG came out to repair a leaking radiator (Under homecare agreement) as well as to rectify a fault in the hot water system (he replaced the 3 port valve in the airing cupboard) and unfortunatly I was at work but my wife was at home.

All was well until he started looking at the boiler and testing it, whereby it failed the emmissions test, so he cleaned it up and retested it and it failed again saying that the emmissions were too high, he then went on to mention that where the flue terminal is, is not to current regulations which I was already aware of (it is apparantly to close to our kitchen window) but have been told previously that its nothing to worry about, but what happened next I found quite extreme, he stuck a label on the boiler saying it was "at risk" and shouldn't be used until repaired, and also issued a certificate to the same effect stating that the gas supply had been isolated and cannot be used until repaired, but didn't!

My wife asked if the boiler needed replacing and was told no, and then left!

When I got home and read through all the paperwork I was at a loss as to what was wrong, especially as a different BG engineer came out in February to recharge the expansion vessel and replace the PRV and said that the boiler was fine and that its a really good boiler (Ideal Classic FF230). So I phoned up BG and asked for more info, the lady I spoke to didn't understand either why the engineer had taken the actions he did, and so phoned him whilst I was on the line and came back with that because it failed the emmisions test that why he did what he did, but the boiler is safe to use!!

She said that she would get him to ring me the next day and explain fully, but that didn't happen!

So basically what I want to know is, should I be worried about the above, and what does it mean by the emissions are too high?

Many thanks in advance!

Carlos_uk.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

call in a independent gsr engineer there could be many causes of it failing a fga test

 

[SimonG]

If really worried get an independant engineer to have a look at it, tell BG that you are going to do this for peace of mind and will pass on the cost of this to them.

Funny but BG came out on Thursday to a mate of mine for a service under his agreement, first visit in 18 months and documented that the earthe bonding was incorrect and termination of prv pipework incorrect. He told them that they better get it sorted then as they had installed it 18 months ago 🙂

 

[Carlos_UK]

Thanks guys, the thing I don't get is why they don't repair it as surely its covered under the homecare agreement?

 

[Howsie]

Thanks guys, the thing I don't get is why they don't repair it as surely its covered under the homecare agreement?

You'd think wouldn't you.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Thanks guys, the thing I don't get is why they don't repair it as surely its covered under the homecare agreement?

passing the buck my friend put your foot down with BG

 

[Carlos_UK]

passing the buck my friend put your foot down with BG

Yeah, I'm going to give them another ring when I finish work tomorrow and suggest they come out and repair it if its faulty!!

 

[broggo]

It all eventually ends with BG trying to get a boiler swap out of you.
Even tho he said it didn't need a new boiler someone from BG will try and persuade you to part with your pennies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Carlos_UK]

It all eventually ends with BG trying to get a boiler swap out of you.
Even tho he said it didn't need a new boiler someone from BG will try and persuade you to part with your pennies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just out of interest, is it true what the previous engineer said about the boiler being a good one?

 

[broggo]

Yeah, ideal classics are a good boiler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Barry98]

how far from the window is the flue ?

 

[Carlos_UK]

how far from the window is the flue ?

About 1 metre, the last guy that came out said that it would have been fine when the house was built 12 years ago, but obviously regulations get updated over time!

 

[Barry98]

in that case though it would only be NCS not to current standards . like above get an independent guy/girl in to check boiler emissions

 

[SafeGasInstall]

is it a vertical flue ? picture could do well if posted ,could you read from the report the CO reading and post here

 

[AWheating]

i dont really understand, if the engineer at risked the boiler and your covered under there insurance scheme then why have they not come back and repaired the appliance? they have taken your money to insure the boiler and system so make them earn it and insist they come back monday morning and fix the fault.

 

[kay-jay]

how far from the window is the flue ?

not far enough i bet. see this all the time where a boiler has been satisfactorily positioned, but cos a window has been replaced - a bottom opening sash window for example changed for a top opening upvc and hey presto boiler position now fouls the regs.


to the op- nothing to worry about? suppose bg told you that as well...products of combustion kill, you really don't want the window open when boiler is in use.

 

[kay-jay]

just read other post - 1 metre is ncs but shouldn't kill anyone:28:

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i dont understand kay-jay 1m is NCS ?

 

[JAP&H]

Reading the OP I would guess that it's the FGA readings that have caused the BG bloke to categorise the boiler as AR and cap off (permission not mentioned).

But agree with AWheating boiler is insured with BG, get then back to fix it.

Only guessing but BG bloke may have been at a loss as to what to do next. FGA readings out, clean. FGA readings still out doh!

 

[Carlos_UK]

Here's a picture of the Flue and the window, all as was when house was built! The report doesn't actually list what the readings were, just that it failed, but readings were all perfect in February!

 

[Carlos_UK]

Reading the OP I would guess that it's the FGA readings that have caused the BG bloke to categorise the boiler as AR and cap off (permission not mentioned).

But agree with AWheating boiler is insured with BG, get then back to fix it.

Only guessing but BG bloke may have been at a loss as to what to do next. FGA readings out, clean. FGA readings still out doh!

There was no mention of the boiler being shut off, he just stated that he had in the report! It states "High emissions on maximum rate, cleaned still high"

 

[JAP&H]

but what happened next I found quite extreme, he stuck a label on the boiler saying it was "at risk" and shouldn't be used until repaired, and also issued a certificate to the same effect stating that the gas supply had been isolated and cannot be used until repaired, but didn't!

Read your original post again Carlos_UK and realise what the 'but didn't' means.

Why say it, issue paperwork but not do it?

 

[mountainman]

Emissions would be high if just cleaned out, but it seems to me that the emissions from this elderly boiler could be pretty wildly variable.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Whats the problem with flue ?? Fan Flue 300mm (12") from window look in MI. looks to be plenty of distance from window !! This is an older type boiler how do you think these things were serviced B4 FGA readings were done look in service instructions ! Too much emphasis put on the use of FGA's ok on new type boilers but I think that to meny older boilers are being shut down due to FGA's being used.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

is not the window its the boundary

 

[kay-jay]

i dont understand kay-jay 1m is NCS ?

my bad. the 1m is the distance op said. i said ncs because he implied that there was only an issue cos of regs update.

i should have been clearer..........

​

 

[CES]

I would have said it looks too close to the boundary if anything..

 

[jtsplumbing]

If your flue is wrong then every house in your block , poss the whole estate if built by same builder useing same boiler in same location Have a look at rest of houses near you bet their are loads just the same, have a estate in Saltash Cornwall about 8 years old non condensing boilers flues a lot closer then what yours are, all was passed by building reg's and gas regs at the time just not to currant requirements, not a problem as they complied with regs when fitted, it only becomes a problem if you want to fit a new boiler. Advise you ring Gas Safe on monday and ask them, its just BG think they are a law unto themselfs.

 

[mfgs]

The flue is too close to the boundary. As for the high emissions, then it is for them to sort out as it is under contract and clearly something is wrong with the boiler. Call them out for a breakdown visit as your boiler isnt working and then it will be sent back to the engineer who visited you as a recall job.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Dont think boundary is a problem, just check and put a photo on of next door's boiler flue position is it the same as yours ???

 

[REDSAW]

bg...and people pay for this!!!!!!!!!.
every right to get the guy back and state in plain english what the probs are.

 

[Carlos_UK]

Dont think boundary is a problem, just check and put a photo on of next door's boiler flue position is it the same as yours ???

Next doors and in fact all the houses on my estate have the same boilers all with the Flue's in the same place as mine!

 

[Howsie]

It's closer to next doors window than yours by the look of it.

 

[Carlos_UK]

It's closer to next doors window than yours by the look of it.

That's their back door and yes it is, my house is the mid terrace and so the neighbours flue on the other side is right next to our back door!

 

[diamondgas]

That's their back door and yes it is, my house is the mid terrace and so the neighbours flue on the other side is right next to our back door!

Hi Carlos_UK ... You should be covered under your contract for any work carried out to rectify the excess emissions issue. It's unfortunate the engineer didn't leave a print out for you! Why they went to the lengths they did is a mistery!!! Your lass smart? lol ....

If the emmissions were in excess of the regulation requirements we are obliged to make you aware and with your permission leave turned off 🙂 If they haven't promised a return visit to rectify then I'd be a bit miffed!!!

 

[stevetheplumber]

this distance from boundary has realy only come to light with the advent of condensing boilers which this isnt

 

[jtsplumbing]

Have you ask'd Ideal's opinion, ring them , we are allways told refer to MI.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Hi steve ! Are we the only one's to notice that this is-not a steamer ???????????

 

[Carlos_UK]

right, I've just phoned up British Gas and they're sending someone out in the morning "to have a look at it" so we'll see what they've got to say!

 

[diamondgas]

Hi steve ! Are we the only one's to notice that this is-not a steamer ???????????

Steamer lol .... The op probalby doesn't give stuff IMHO .. They're more concerned by sounds of it at the approach the BG engineer took leaving them with out heating and hot water! Good right too IMHO!

 

[Barry98]

keep us informed please , good to get feedback

 

[Howsie]

How cares if it's not steaming; the concern is POC.

Anyways, MI's should tell all.

 

[Carlos_UK]

keep us informed please , good to get feedback

Will do 🙂

 

[CES]

Hi steve ! Are we the only one's to notice that this is-not a steamer ???????????

A "Steamer" has a different meaning where I'm from..:17:

 

[gavinwilson]

arent they suppose to check this sort of stuff before they agree to accept you onto the scheme? i can understand the emissions but obv the flue hasnt moved while the op has been in the service scheme

 

[AWheating]

if the flue is fitted to Manufactures instructions then there is no issues with either the window or boundary imo.

 

[stevetheplumber]

just looked at ideal classic mi's and theres no mention of a distance from boundary when running paralel to flue axis aftyer getting a high reading then stripping and cleaning if the reading was still high the gas rate and burner preasure should be checked as well as flame picture if all good it can be left on

 

[GrahamM]

BS 5400-1:2008 states 300mm from boundary so in that respect it is NCS.

As for the High combustion readings the classic flues are like tracing paper and the inner can rot through within a few years. Giving elevated readings.

Sound like the Engineer was out of his depth and made a sharp exit.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Do we know if BG engineer chacked burner press etc ? did he brush out EX ? or just FGA it !

 

[tamz]

BS 5400-1:2008 states 300mm from boundary so in that respect it is NCS.

Gas regs on most things are not retrospective which is why they class things as NCS which should really be classed as WGAF. It is a pointless paper exercise brought about by claims are us type stuff. CYA is what it is all about now.

As for the op, the guy on the job only done what was required to keep himself in a job. 99% of people on here would have done the same. It is the way things are these days especially working for the big mobs. Blame it on the claim culture.

 

[Barry98]

wgaf lmao

 

[stevetheplumber]

Gas regs on most things are not retrospective which is why they class things as NCS which should really be classed as WGAF. It is a pointless paper exercise brought about by claims are us type stuff. CYA is what it is all about now.

As for the op, the guy on the job only done what was required to keep himself in a job. 99% of people on here would have done the same. It is the way things are these days especially working for the big mobs. Blame it on the claim culture.

wgaf?

 

[jtsplumbing]

Explain WGAF & CYA Please, Thank you

 

[villa_tom]

Explain WGAF & CYA Please, Thank you

CYA = cover your arse

Not to sure about WGAF though

 

[wards]

who gives a ==== and cover your ==== hth

 

[Carlos_UK]

Right guys an update, this morning I woke up to no hot water and on further inspection the pump was running but the boiler was not lighting! So after applying the text book fix of turning it off and on again to no avail, I gave the side of the boiler a whack and it sprung into life! Good job the engineer was already booked!

Anyway, it was a different guy this time and he quite quickly found that the gas valve was the wrong one for the boiler, and there was a spiders web partially obstructing the flue!

So he retested it, all levels now correct and boiler firing up, and he removed the "at risk" sign from the boiler.

I was at work and so it was the Mrs who was here again, but she said that the guy wasn't happy about the fact this hadn't been found by the last guy, but none of this was on the report, so I'm guessing he doesn't want to get the other guy in trouble!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Thanks wards the light has come on :bulb2: you'll have to excuse me it's an age thing :wheelchair:

 

[JAP&H]

How long has the gas valve been in. Before or after BGs last service?

Looks like the original BG bloke got out of his depth.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Has this gas valve been changed B4 ? and if so who by ? and how long ago ? could it be BG !!

 

[Carlos_UK]

How long has the gas valve been in. Before or after BGs last service?

Looks like the original BG bloke got out of his depth.

I'm not aware of it being changed in the time we've lived here (almost 3 years) but I think the guy said that it was the bloke that came out in february!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Passing the buck, if last engineer fitted wrong valve think he needs retraining as this would have been ID.

 

[Carlos_UK]

Surely if it was the wrong valve fitted previously, it would have stopped working sooner, just seems weird it packed up a few days after the last bloke came!

 

[SamGas]

Here's a picture of the Flue and the window, all as was when house was built! The report doesn't actually list what the readings were, just that it failed, but readings were all perfect in February!

View attachment 6943

That looks alot closer than a meter to me :dizzy2:

More like about 2 foot.

Anyway, with that aside it's not likely to be anything majorly wrong with the boiler and probably just needs adjusting slightly.

Like everybody else has said, if they wont come out to fix it ASAP get somebody who actually know's what there doing in, and then pass the bill to BG

 

[jtsplumbing]

Bet the BG engineer did not leave old valve with you !!

 

[Carlos_UK]

Bet the BG engineer did not leave old valve with you !!

No, he took it with him!

 

[jtsplumbing]

So no proof that it was wrong valve, would have been under orders not to leave any evidence, have you thought about changing insurance cover

 

[Carlos_UK]

So no proof that it was wrong valve, would have been under orders not to leave any evidence, have you thought about changing insurance cover

I think if I have the same problems again, I will do!

 

[GrahamM]

BG engineers should not leave any old parts behind. They are supposed to return them to their distribution center to be properly disposed of.

 

[Atouchofgas]

Some ideal classic only require 25mm to boundary, as I was taught rtfm!

 

[Carlos_UK]

Hi Guys, a further update or should I say correction!

When my wife came home from work I asked her to tell me in more detail what the BG engineer said and did, and basically with the help of an exploded diagram of our boiler from the manual, she identified the part that he replaced which was in fact the air pressure switch and not the gas valve as she previously told me so apologies for that!

The guy looked it up on his computer and found it was the guy in February that had fitted it (I still don't understand why its taken this long to fail!)

He also said (like the rest of us) that he doesn't understand why the guy did what he did on Thursday!

 

[buckley plumb]

my mates old boiler is covered by bg and it broke down and they told him the pcb and gas valve were not available. he called me for advice and and i gave him the parts centre codes and prices and confirmed they were still available - with this he called back and asked for a senior engineer to attent and bring the parts . they wrote him an appology letter . makes me wonder how many people they have ripped off they are taught as salesmen first then as gas engineers 2nd.

 

[JAP&H]

If its uneconomical for BG to carry spares for a certain boiler they will inform customer that appliance is obsolete, can't get parts.

All the while parts available from usual suspects. As buckley plumb asked, how many times do customers agree to a BG boiler renewal?

 

[GrahamM]

They are supposed to try the main local suppliers they have account with to source parts they no longer have in stock, ie. PTS, Plumbcentre.
This is the minimum required before they can declare parts no longer available.

 

[plumbqate]

they serviced a 105HE and condemned external condensate pipe,also said it needed a magnatec fitted urgently. failed to fix leak on plunger to microswitch for hot water. but did give a notice about ncs about condensate . They are irresponsible rogues scaring elderly people for no reason. I actually read the form out to them and they said oh thats not so bad but bg man made it sound serious!!

 

[scoullar]

this man talks sense i was on a job doin maintenace and a gb engineer was fault finding on a boiler he didnt have a clue it was a system boiler installed and he thought it was a combi what a div i know its about having peace of mind with those covers but i dont think its worth the paper its written on just like any insurance they have always got a get out clause use the independant when u need to they also quoted a friend of mine 600 for a powerflush and stated it had a lifetime guarantee wot a load of cobblers how can u guarantee no sludge or scale for life especially in london

 

[scoullar]

flue looks fine to me min 300mm he must be on bonus for condemning they do health check before they offer cover why wasnt this pointed out them they have the trust from the public and they are abusing it con merchants ive heard so many storys about them and they are getting away with murder blow them out

 

[diamondgas]

Like all of us here we're all engineers of differing abilities! Personally I think the training and after care assistance for the BG engineers, technical advice and the like is second to none! It's entirely up to the individual whether they want to utalise that or not! I spent a couple of years identifying training needs for the "parts fitters" at BG in my region! We would then buddy guys to help them develop their fault finding skills! As far as I'm aware that still goes on today! Ther'll always be the person who thinks they know it all, they're dangerous! And we will all at some time get it wrong! I've been at this for 34 yrs and am still learning and through experience get it wrong a lot less than right! 😀

Glad to hear you got your boiler sorted out Carlos_UK 😀

 

[Plumbcrazy56]

Taken from ideal Classic ff 230 instalation instructions.

 

[GrahamM]

this man talks sense i was on a job doin maintenace and a gb engineer was fault finding on a boiler he didnt have a clue it was a system boiler installed and he thought it was a combi what a div i know its about having peace of mind with those covers but i dont think its worth the paper its written on just like any insurance they have always got a get out clause use the independant when u need to they also quoted a friend of mine 600 for a powerflush and stated it had a lifetime guarantee wot a load of cobblers how can u guarantee no sludge or scale for life especially in london

They do not guarantee the system will never get sludged up after they flush. What they guarantee is after they do a flush and you have re-occurring circulation issues they will re-flush as required without charge.

 

[glenno1]

Bg used to have real good reputation and real good engineers,my mate was 1 of them but he left years ago because he says they cut back on everything like training courses and apprenticeships,they also upped everyones workload eg 1 man to do 2 mens jobs

 

[diamondgas]

Bg used to have real good reputation and real good engineers,my mate was 1 of them but he left years ago because he says they cut back on everything like training courses and apprenticeships,they also upped everyones workload eg 1 man to do 2 mens jobs

I jumped ship in 2007 🙂 Had 25yrs there and don't regret any of the time spent with friends and colleagues. The main reason I left was because of the way I was managed!

 

[REDSAW]

Bg used to have real good reputation and real good engineers,my mate was 1 of them but he left years ago because he says they cut back on everything like training courses and apprenticeships,they also upped everyones workload eg 1 man to do 2 mens jobs

in a nut shell......................they now have share holders!!!! like the rest of them all looking to skin everything for wonga.