B
baileys
I didnt want them to know that i was getting it checked though, i dont want any trouble and i know they will cause some.
Anyway all ....thanks for your free service, i will go and sleep my wine off now.:wink5:
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
Anyway all ....thanks for your free service, i will go and sleep my wine off now.:wink5:
E
Ermintrude
D
Dotty
At the end of the day you've not been given the service you should've Baileys.
NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT! Please don't blame yourself. You're more knowledge on heating systems now than you had a few days ago. But that's only because your gut said it was wrong and you were right to listen to it.
Post a thread in the 'I'm looking for a plumber / gas engineer' section of these forums remembering to include your location. [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL] and link back to this thread.
You need someone in who knows what they're doing!
B
baileys
Thanks croppie, i sort of know its not my fault but it sometimes feels like it.
My plan is to get a gas engineer to have a good look at the system and to tell me, in his opinion if all is ok, i am worried because my plumber seems to be only abide by the rules he likes so i dont feel save with this gas at the moment.
Someone has told me of a plumber that they have known for a long time so if he is gas safe then i will see if he can pop in, if not then i will do as you say and post it on here.
Once i know exactly what and if there are any flaws in my plumbers work...other than the obvious.. then i will have more confidence to confront him.
B
baileys
My plumber still insists that he is allowed legally to hang a boiler, put in the flue and connect the wet pipes when he is not a GSE but leave the connection to someone that is. He said he can because he has done a coarse on boilers.......i thought you had to be a GSE to do all that.
Baileys i feel very sorry for you having to deal with this.
if i were in a better position experience wise i would come along and give a ruthless report on it.
You should have not needed to turn to this forum with this if it was done correctly in the first place!
To add to what the guys have said.
as this is a new install you should have not one but two room stats.
one for living areas and another for the sleeping or more commonly upstairs and downstairs.
It should comply with this document.
http://www.idhee.org.uk/TACMA Guide 2010.pdf
out of interest how old is the installer? On an unrelated note.
if i were in a better position experience wise i would come along and give a ruthless report on it.
You should have not needed to turn to this forum with this if it was done correctly in the first place!
To add to what the guys have said.
as this is a new install you should have not one but two room stats.
one for living areas and another for the sleeping or more commonly upstairs and downstairs.
It should comply with this document.
http://www.idhee.org.uk/TACMA Guide 2010.pdf
out of interest how old is the installer? On an unrelated note.
B
baileys
Thank-you The plumber is in his late 40s, only been plumbing for about 4 years, the GSE was early 20s. Is the plumber allowed to hang the boiler, flue, and connect water pipe to the boiler, if he has done a boiler course, i didnt think he was allowed, he is not a GSE.
he is not allowed to do any gas work unless he is gas safe registerd and competent to work on this type of appliance. this includes siting/hanging the applaince, and fitting the flue.
he can pipe up the water pipework aslong as the gas is not connected at the time, but the boiler needs to be fitted first by a gas safe engineer.
he can pipe up the water pipework aslong as the gas is not connected at the time, but the boiler needs to be fitted first by a gas safe engineer.
Last edited:
B
baileys
Thank-you for that and im sorry for being a pain but im having to sort this out myself and im only just learning about central heating.
I have contacted gas safe by email and phone three times to make sure im getting it right and they told me the same as you but his family have now found out about this and they are not at all happy that im questioning his ability to do the boiler. They say that because he has done a course on boilers that he can do all the installation apart from the gas connection.
Gas safe say that i should have it checked but i need to name the installer, i cant do that because the family may cause trouble. I need to be reassured that what i suspect is right.... so thank you.
you have every right to suspect its not right.
its not just your money, heating and hot water its also your safety.
if he hasn't installed the flue correctly or if the gsr hasn't set up the boiler right.
between them they have an awful attitude towards yourself, the customer.
and you've questioned it correctly, he hasn't installed the system to regulation and between them they haven't filled in the commissioning sheet correctly (stating interlock)
Really don't feel bad as you need this sorted.
in reply to the family, tell them that if hes qualified to do the work and has nothing to hide then he has nothing to worry about and gas safe will deem him competent to do the work.
the sheer fact that they seem upset should be telling you all you need to know.
im sorry i cant really help other than reply to this forum post.
B
baileys
I know i do need to get it sorted but i doubt myself when they tell me different to what i think and i feel that im in the wrong.
Its taken me 4 years to save for this central heating and i was looking forward to having a warm house, i wish i had my storage heaters back now.
Ive learnt my lessen and i will never get a tradesman in that im an acquaintance with again. I dont know if i can convince him that he should be qualified to fit a boiler, i dont know if he realises it or not but he is doing a good job at convincing his family that he is.
The flue is 19cm from the air brick, i think its meant to be 30cm. He told me to block it up if im not happy.
Im feeling better now that you are all telling me that im right and that he is not meant to be doing the work that he says he can because he is good at convincing me that he is legally allowed to do it.
B
baileys
I just need you all to tell me that im right, i know thats all you can do and you are helping me lots, i just doubt myself when they are all verbally attacking me. I tried to explain to them that if he has the gas safe card to show me then all is good but he hasnt but they still think that he is allowed to do it.
I need more faith in myself.
B
baileys
When i first started this topic i was worried that he may be on here and might recognise the photos of the boiler and realise that i was talking about him but as time went on i was hoping he was looking and seeing what i was trying to explain to him.
He obviously hasn't done a 'course on boilers which allows him to hang' them even if one existed, which it doesn't, otherwise he would have known about the distance from the vent. FFS reading the instruction manual that came in the box would have shown you this.
This is the exact reason why plumbers can't hang boilers and do everything other than the gas pipe work, as the flue he has installed ( which is classed as gas work by definition in the gas safety installation and use regulations 1998 if he wants to check up on it) is wrong!
The flue elbow doesn't look to be located right, my bet is the hole is slightly to high and the elbow isn't pushed in all the way. (I may be wrong as I'm not overly familiar with this boiler, are the elbows quite long?)
The abuse is to stop you doing the right thing, which is shop the pair of them in to gas safe.
You'll get a similar reaction off most registered gas engineers. We pay out continuously to maintain the registration,so why should idiots like him get away without the expense?
This is the exact reason why plumbers can't hang boilers and do everything other than the gas pipe work, as the flue he has installed ( which is classed as gas work by definition in the gas safety installation and use regulations 1998 if he wants to check up on it) is wrong!
The flue elbow doesn't look to be located right, my bet is the hole is slightly to high and the elbow isn't pushed in all the way. (I may be wrong as I'm not overly familiar with this boiler, are the elbows quite long?)
The abuse is to stop you doing the right thing, which is shop the pair of them in to gas safe.
You'll get a similar reaction off most registered gas engineers. We pay out continuously to maintain the registration,so why should idiots like him get away without the expense?
Last edited:
B
baileys
One family member lives next door and one over the road so i had to face them today. They are all telling me that he can legally do the work, i can defend myself though but they are trying to convince me that im wrong about him not being able to do fit the boiler flue etc.
This is why i come on here to confirm it again.
B
baileys
The elbow doesnt look like its positioned right to me either, it looks like it has been forced into place, if thats what you mean. The flue is only 19cm from the airbrick aswell ive read its meant to be 30cm, he told me to block the vent if im bothered by it.
I agree, youve paid to become qualified, he thinks he is so good at his job that he doesnt need a qualification to prove it, thats the impression i get anyway.
R
Rickster123
Turn your gas supply off, switch the power off to the boiler and get a gas safe guy in to make it safe.
Just in case you need proof, taken from GSIUR regulations 1998
Regulation
work on a gas fitting to be carried out only by a competent person; and employers of gas fitting operatives, together with other specified persons (eg those in control of the work such as building contractors), to ensure that operatives have the required competence for the particular work being done. Employers of persons carrying out work on gas fittings/service pipework and self-employed persons doing this work are required to be a member of a class of persons approved by HSE; at the time of publication of this ACOP/guidance this means that they should be registered with the Gas Safe Register
Definitions of a gas fitting
“gas fitting” means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used
Regulation
work on a gas fitting to be carried out only by a competent person; and employers of gas fitting operatives, together with other specified persons (eg those in control of the work such as building contractors), to ensure that operatives have the required competence for the particular work being done. Employers of persons carrying out work on gas fittings/service pipework and self-employed persons doing this work are required to be a member of a class of persons approved by HSE; at the time of publication of this ACOP/guidance this means that they should be registered with the Gas Safe Register
Definitions of a gas fitting
“gas fitting” means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used
B
baileys
B
baileys
E
Ermintrude
Feel your anguish! Hope this gets sorted . The blokes a moron and a blagger. I would just ignore the paso he's conning out with.
R
REDSAW
i wouldnt worry about the flue as there is some movement in these baxi's without loosing the seal.
what baffles me is...if you are not allowed to install an appliance that deems it A.R
then why has the boiler been mounted on a combustible surface, and one could say (tongue in cheek) with signs of scourching?????????????
what baffles me is...if you are not allowed to install an appliance that deems it A.R
then why has the boiler been mounted on a combustible surface, and one could say (tongue in cheek) with signs of scourching?????????????
B
baileys
I try to ignore him and his family but its not my personality to be able do that. I get so wound up by it. How do people not understand how dangerous it is to be doing gas work when you are not trained. I have to think of my neighbours as well, if my gas isnt save then they are not safe either and i need to make sure that they are.
R
REDSAW
B
baileys
Im not really understanding all you are saying, i dont know what an ar is.i wouldnt worry about the flue as there is some movement in these baxi's without loosing the seal.
what baffles me is...if you are not allowed to install an appliance that deems it A.R
then why has the boiler been mounted on a combustible surface, and one could say (tongue in cheek) with signs of scourching?????????????
What could the scorch marks be, it smells like burning but where would it be coming from.
The reason it was suspended from the wall was because the gas pipe runs down the center of the back wall
B
baileys
B
baileys
Yea, if he's of a bit of a know it all like your saying, I'd be letting gas safe know of this activitys, bring him down a few pegs and show his family that he is infact wrong.
Some people do it knowing they're in the wrong just to make a cheeky buck but he just sounds plan arrogant.
He will probably only get a slap on the wrist. All of us here pay our registration and retrain every 4 years so I'm not sure why he thinks he's any better and can be excluded from that.
Some people do it knowing they're in the wrong just to make a cheeky buck but he just sounds plan arrogant.
He will probably only get a slap on the wrist. All of us here pay our registration and retrain every 4 years so I'm not sure why he thinks he's any better and can be excluded from that.
B
baileys
Its my word against his though because he got the work signed off by a GSE and you are right they wouldnt do much anyway
B
baileys
I read that you can ask for a gas inspection and if you are chosen then it could be six months before they come and check it. Ive turned my boiler off now.
Other than that i will have to make a complaint, that wont go down well with them all, i think i will be watching my back.
M
Mike Jackson
B
baileys
Thanks mike i will look at it when my son gets home, im having trouble opening the file.
Im getting a bit closer to getting things sorted. I rang a builder that i last saw about 25 years ago and told him my situation and he is putting me in touch with a GSE that he totally trusts to do his gas. His niece was killed by a faulty gas boiler, installed by an illegal fitter so he is very careful about who he has in and he was livid when i told him about mine situation.
Ive also decided to ring the GSE who connected me because its his name on the benchmark he needs to know what a mess the plumber has got him into.
A
Aquariusplumb
I wouldn't bother ringing the GSE as he came and connected the gas supply and should have checked everything was correct when he was there! As for the plumbers family twisting on at you, tell them to off! It's you and your family with a badly fitted boiler which could possibly kill you. I couldn't imagine why you wouldn't fit a room stat? Hard wired £10 wireless £50 both take 10 mins to wire up!!
Last edited by a moderator:
B
baileys
The reason why im calling the GSE is because i want to put pressure on him to get some money out of the plumber to pay for me to get an independent GSE to check his work and correct what is necessary. Its his name on the benchmark.
I dont see any point in complaining to gas safe about them because its only my word against theirs that the plumber did the work and if i dont get some money back from the plumber then he will just get away scott free. All that will probably happen is that the GSE will be told to correct his work but i dont want him back in my house.
I have a guy coming tomorrow to do a check list of the faults and i can go from there. I trust him.
A little slow on responding, but thoughts are with the scorched Ply, that it went from AR to ID when the soldering was carried out and ended in a NCS. LOL
B
baileys
B
basildog
AR= At risk
ID= Imediately dangerous
NCS=Not to current standards
More pc psycho babble to mess with your head ! lol
ID= Imediately dangerous
NCS=Not to current standards
More pc psycho babble to mess with your head ! lol
B
basildog
Yep and officials
Councils
police
social workers
doctors
old people
children
dogs
Oooops sorry People !
Oh and mucked about with food !
Eat meat not muck like burgers and sausages !
Councils
police
social workers
doctors
old people
children
dogs
Oooops sorry People !
Oh and mucked about with food !
Eat meat not muck like burgers and sausages !
Last edited by a moderator:
B
baileys
D
Dotty
Stan, because I think we're going to get a bit more technical on this now I've moved your post to here.
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...e/62155-re-should-i-have-room-thermostat.html
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...e/62155-re-should-i-have-room-thermostat.html
R
Ray Stafford
D
Dotty
E
Ermintrude
Basics really, incomplete flue, black marks from poc around appliance, the smell of gas.... If it looks wrong it normally is!
T
tamz
Really! Black marks from a surefire mean zilch, no mention of smell of gas, if you pay cheap you get what you deserve imo and i know people are struggling to make ends meet blah blah blah. Heard it all before.
B
baileys
I didnt ask for cheap heating, i just asked for a quote. I paid the going rate, seeing as i paid him cash and didnt get a room stat it works out the same as the person who lives two doors away that had their heating installed a few months ago. I didnt know he wasnt going to give me a receipt.
So i deserved it then did i?
So i deserved it then did i?
don't take it too strongly bailey, Tamz i's an old hand and has seen more than most what problems a suspiciously low quote causes.. we have a slightly different view on pricing ect ect. sadly (if you had gotten more than that one quote) you got the bum deal.
i'f you had used any of us you would likely have have paid closer to the £4000 mark but have gotten a quality install.
i'f you had used any of us you would likely have have paid closer to the £4000 mark but have gotten a quality install.
B
baileys
I got four quotes, all GSE apart from him who said he wouldnt install the boiler....my highest was £3.500, I went with the person i did because his mum lives upstairs to me and he is...was a friend and i decorate for him sometimes. I thought i could trust him.
T
tamz
You payed cheap and cash which is worth another 4 or 500 on an invoice. I'm not saying it is your fault you didn't get the quality of workmanship you desired. You went with what you thought best. But had you gone with a legit installer most likely you wouldn't be on here. We all live and learn.
I get guys to do work for me cash in hand but i'm in a bit different position from the man (woman) on the street in that i know and have worked with them for many years so know what to expect.
Btw the guy you had out today to look at it will get you sorted out no problem.
I get guys to do work for me cash in hand but i'm in a bit different position from the man (woman) on the street in that i know and have worked with them for many years so know what to expect.
Btw the guy you had out today to look at it will get you sorted out no problem.
At the end of the day, new install must meet Part L building Regulations as well as the Gas Safe stuff and may be Part P for the wiring. So a room thermostat is required as part of the job. Discretion on this is only on system updates, not for a full new system.
B
baileys
Thats all i wanted.....just a working system that meets the regulations, it doesnt matter how cheap they do it, they should make it safe and working properly.
B
baileys
The plumber told me he wasnt installing the boiler, he said he was getting a GSE to do it....he did it when i wasnt at home, when i questioned him after he had done it he convinced me he was allowed to as long as he didnt connect the gas.
T
tamz
The cash world doesn't work like that as you have learned. Usually all you will get is the basics hopefully to standards.
Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.
That can be applied to every avenue of life.
[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]
[/FONT]
Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.
That can be applied to every avenue of life.
[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]
[/FONT]
T
tamz
Maybe that is when you should have thought mmm.........
Don't worry. Stan will get you sorted out. We all have made mistakes in life.
B
baileys
I know he is not, its hard when its a friend though. I dont usually doubt myself but i did this time. Ive learnt a big lesson.
T
tamz
Btw my biggest mistake cost me near a half million £. I didn't realise it at the time either as i walked her up the isle :smile:
B
baileys
I get your point but i could of spent £5.500 and got just the same deal, thats what he said he would of charged if i wasnt a friend......you just dont know ...do you. Nobody knows what they are getting really until the jobs done.
No what you mean." Hurricane romance", all huffing and puffing to start with, then you loose your house.
T
tamz
And the rest:lol: I never realised i was worth so much on paper but her lawyers did. I got the bit that wasn't on paper and worth (word removed) all!
B
baileys
T
tamz
5 n a half grand in his dreams. Even Big Gas wouldn't have taken that.
You will be wiser next time around and i do sympathise with how you have been treated. Most times people offering jobs on the cheap are never a bargain.
T
tamz
B
baileys
I did tell him that i was surprised he gets work if he charges that much. I am usually more on the ball but i messed up this time.
T
tamz
Don't beat yourself up about it. Have anther sherry and chill.
I've just finished my bottle of plonk on top of about 6 or 7 pints and the few half i had in the pub so i'm calling it a night.
I've got tanks to pee in and old folks to rip off in the morning :wink:
I've just finished my bottle of plonk on top of about 6 or 7 pints and the few half i had in the pub so i'm calling it a night.
I've got tanks to pee in and old folks to rip off in the morning :wink:
B
baileys
B
baileys
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Similar plumbing topics
- Ian is stumped
- Boiler Advice Forum
- Andrew keavney
- Boiler Advice Forum
- Krzysztof
- Boiler Advice Forum
- TenementConservation
- Boiler Advice Forum
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.
