Undercut again. What is going on here?

[cr0ft]

Hi folks.

Seem to be having no problem winning small jobs around here but large jobs, that's a different story entirely.

Went to do a quote for a new central heating system install. Old heat-only boiler ripped out, HW cylinder and tanks out, new combi-boiler fitted in different location. 3 bedroom bungalow, 8 radiators in total.

All pipework in copper, to be chased into walls and wrapped. Chases to be filled with render ready for plastering. Come back on completion of plastering to 2nd fix rads. All pipework in loft to be insulated (everything is up and over as ground floor is concrete).

Customer wants a top-of-the-range boiler with new radiators supplied in the price.

I gave her a ballpark figure of £4-£4,500 with everything supplied and fitted. She told me she had a quote to do it all for £2,500. Erm, the cost price (on the internet) of the materials I would need is more than that.

Am I missing a real trick here? Am I paying 2x what these guys are paying for materials or something?

I just don't understand it at all tbh!!

 

[Mike Jackson]

I've had similar. Undercut by nearly 2 grand on a £4200 job. It's got to be guys working for big companies doing a foreigner and using knocked off materials. I'm keeping my eyes open because I will grass them if I see them at it as it's affecting my livelihood. Perhaps I'm too honest but I didn't do anything on the side when I worked for eagaheat.

 

[grahamgas]

Did you ask to see her written quote lol.

Maybe she was just trying her luck.

Doesnt sound like your quote was way over price, what with all the work involved.

Whenever I get someone question me like that, I always ask EXACTLY what the other quote entails.

 

[AWheating]

probably a ravenheat and finnimetal radiators from b and q.

 

[secret squirrel]

surely it can only be quality of materials or as said they're not paying for materials.

Out of interest have you worked it out, cheapest boiler cheapest rads all in plastic etc?

She may have got a quote for a cheap as chips boiler and been told its top of the range!

 

[Rickster123]

I priced up a vaillant ecotec plus 831 standard flue, internal clock, flush, scale protection and magnaclean. I went in at 1560. Bargain! Or so I thought! Same materials same job, a guy went in at 1350. I was only going to make a days cosh as it was!!

 

[SimonG]

It'll be priced on a different spec. Cheap tatty boiler and rads, surface pipe, no trv's etc etc etc. Customers responsibility to be asking why such a huge difference. Doesn't help you, but await phone call when it goes pear shaped and needs digging out the clarts. 'Certainly I can help, but you do appreciate I will be charging my muppet rate', 'muppet rate', 'basically double time, because your a muppet for taking a ridiclously low price'. Kerching.

 

[Barry98]

I priced up a vaillant ecotec plus 831 standard flue, internal clock, flush, scale protection and magnaclean. I went in at 1560. Bargain! Or so I thought! Same materials same job, a guy went in at 1350. I was only going to make a days cosh as it was!!

id of stayed in bed , you can come fit for me at that price

 

[Rickster123]

Id come and fit boilers for you bod anytime..... That is your actual arse in the pic right?!

 

[lambchop]

Dont waste your time with it mate, most probably chancing her arm. Ask to see her written quote and have they checked his gas safe reg no....?

 

[secret squirrel]

Id come and fit boilers for you bod anytime..... That is your actual arse in the pic right?!

If only...... the thoughts I've had there..... Mmmmmmmmm Bod ***

 

[Nostrum]

You need to price for your target market in my opinion. If you offer a premium product with a premium service, you'll get a premium price. Likewise If you want to pick up all the work you can at the lower end of the market, you'll have to price accordingly and people accept a bit of compromise.

In my experience, you'll be hard pushed to be legit and pick up work for the lower end, so you would be better off offering something more and charging for it (and sticking to it). Easy to say in this climate I know, but look at british gas and other large companies, their prices are far higher than you would be able to do it for, but they still earn money because the customer perceive them as being superior, rightly or wrongly.

It's a tough market at the moment so you need to be able to adapt slightly, but I certainly am not going to be busting my balls to offer the lowest price. If I fail I fail, but earning pittance I will not. You'd be better off stacking shelves in tesco than taking all the responsibility that comes with the trade and walking away with a poor wage.

Stick to what your doing and what you have to charge to offer the services you do with the relevent overheads, anything else isn't worth thinking about.

All my opinion of course

 

[secret squirrel]

The only thing I disagree with in your post is: 'people accept a bit of compromise'

I don't think they do, they want a champagne job on a beer budget.

 

[Rickster123]

You need to price for your target market in my opinion. If you offer a premium product with a premium service, you'll get a premium price. Likewise If you want to pick up all the work you can at the lower end of the market, you'll have to price accordingly and people accept a bit of compromise.

In my experience, you'll be hard pushed to be legit and pick up work for the lower end, so you would be better off offering something more and charging for it (and sticking to it). Easy to say in this climate I know, but look at british gas and other large companies, their prices are far higher than you would be able to do it for, but they still earn money because the customer perceive them as being superior, rightly or wrongly.

It's a tough market at the moment so you need to be able to adapt slightly, but I certainly am not going to be busting my balls to offer the lowest price. If I fail I fail, but earning pittance I will not. You'd be better off stacking shelves in tesco than taking all the responsibility that comes with the trade and walking away with a poor wage.

Stick to what your doing and what you have to charge to offer the services you do with the relevent overheads, anything else isn't worth thinking about.

All my opinion of course

The trouble is I find 90% of people now want the cheapest possible price and they know they will get it. There's many guys out there desperate for any form of income and happy to install at very low prices. I'm happy with my price. I want to make a days money for a days work.
im not the kind of person to question a customers decision ie asking who's got the job and what their gas safe details are. It's not my decision to make. What really annoys me is people who give a price and then constantly ring the customer haggling on the price to beat others!

 

[Nostrum]

Some people do, but then, yes your right, there are the customers who will always be disappointed no matter what. The general population in my opinion will accept that a job may take a bit longer to organise, or you may turn up late because you had to juggle your family life in between your work, providing they are paying for what they deem a reasonable service. I can't think of many people who would be happy with getting a call from a british gas engineer saying they were going to be late because they had to drop the kids off to school on the way in to work , because that is not how they perceive a national company to operate.

If a customer wants a champagne job for beer money they will find someone who is prepared to do it eventually, whether that be you, him, them or anyone else. The biggest mistake you can make, is being the one who offers it to them, and you will become a magnet for exactly that person.


Perception and value go hand in hand but are also a million miles apart most of the time.

 

[Rickster123]

Sambotc do you mind if I ask a personal question? Are you of the "old school"? Not much mortgage left to run etc? Forgive me for the personal questioning.

 

[Nostrum]

No mate, i'm 29 I have a young family and a mortgage that kills me every month!

 

[Nostrum]

and the personality of a grandad it would seem! :24:

 

[Barry98]

if that were my arse I can think of a better career then plumbing lol

 

[Rickster123]

and the personality of a grandad it would seem! :24:

Haha so sorry mate got you all wrong!

I was only going to say there's guys out there struggling to meet the bills and feed the family. I've been there before and I know what it's like to lose jobs over 50 quid. I'd rather a few hundred quid than nothing at all at times like that.

Ps. No offence meant about the age nipper!!