viessmann 050-w and viessmann generally

[Chuck]

this whole 'ooh i feel chilly, let's put the heating on' seems slightly whimsical and brit-like (stupid, ultimately) - i've been sat in a 30C room and felt the same comfort as when the room was 20C on many occasions.

Personal 'comfort' is a function of (a) air temperature, (b) radiant temperature, (c) air flow velocity and (d) humidity. What an individual considers to be 'comfortable' depends on their (i) age, (ii) sex, (iii) activity level, (iv) clothing, (v) health and probably other factors I've forgotten.

i like the concept of 24/7 with no timers / controls / thermostats. it makes sense to me.

Plenty of schemes that seem like a nice idea in theory don't work well in practice.

In my experience, people hate not having control of their own environment. You see the effects of this in offices that have centrally controlled BMS. The occupants wedge doors/windows open, obstruct air conditioners, bring in fan heaters, etc.

 

[Knappers]

Yes, I think OP would be better off having a programmable stat and not needing it than needing it and not having

 

[Deleted member 131795]

Yes, I think OP would be better off having a programmable stat and not needing it than needing it and not having

makes sense!

 

[Deleted member 131795]

thanks for all the input. the viessmann approved engineer has quoted me £4200 for the complete job which seems reasonable.

this is to remove old immersion tank, re-route gas supply, install 050-w, two rads via attic / dropdowns, and bathroom for towel rail. install weather comp sensor, supply eph c4 room stat / programmer.

i have been toying with the idea of looking at the worcester 1000, but if you consider that the viessmann is probably the better / more reliable overall, it seems like a good option?

 

[Deleted member 131795]

knappers.. the installer suggested putting the boiler in the loft. i hadn't even thought of it. is this a good idea, in your opinion? his argument was that it would create more space in the cupboard, but i'm thinking it was probably because it's much easier to do a loft install, right? you have any thoughts on this?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Needs to have a fixed loft ladder, light and loft boards

 

[Deleted member 131795]

was thinking about more about things like.. safety, lower operating temp affecting performance, weight on joists, the need to access the boiler quickly, etc. i dunno. i mean if there are none and all i need to worry about is a £65 loft ladder and some boards, so be it. i just thought there might be more things to consider than that.

 

[Chuck]

his argument was that it would create more space in the cupboard, but i'm thinking it was probably because it's much easier to do a loft install, right? you have any thoughts on this?

I think that if you don't trust your installer's advice and judgement you should employ someone else; if they sense your cynicism many engineers will turn down the work anyway.

Nobody I know likes putting boilers in roofs; they are dirty with difficult access and mineral wool insulation gives you skin problems. Losses from pipework will be outside the thermal envelope of the house so insulation is important as is frost protection. I see it as a last resort if there is not enough space somewhere inside the house.

 

[Deleted member 131795]

I think that if you don't trust your installer's advice and judgement you should employ someone else; if they sense your cynicism many engineers will turn down the work anyway.

Nobody I know likes putting boilers in roofs; they are dirty with difficult access and mineral wool insulation gives you skin problems. Losses from pipework will be outside the thermal envelope of the house so insulation is important as is frost protection. I see it as a last resort if there is not enough space somewhere inside the house.

interesting that you don't like putting them in roofs. he seemed to think it would be better, suggesting it would give me more space (and he has a point; it's a very small flat!) plus if it's easier for him too then great for everyone. however, my preference is the bedroom cupboard where the existing immersion tank is. i don't really need the additional space.

there is no cynicism involved i just like to understand everything, and generally ask a lot of questions.

 

[Knappers]

I would generally see loft installation as a premium installation for space saving.
It is more difficult to get to for servicing and there would be some heat losses due to the cold loft in winter.
I don't have an airing cupboard and have a system boiler and unvented cylinder in the loft.
It sounds to me like your engineer is giving good advice but if you don't particularly want the extra space then I'd stick with the cupboard.

 

[Chuck]

interesting that you don't like putting them in roofs. he seemed to think it would be better, suggesting it would give me more space (and he has a point; it's a very small flat!)

Obviously, the pro is that it would give you more space. But, that comes at the price of making access and maintenance harder, etc. As long as the installation complies with the manufacture's installation instructions you can have it wherever you like.

There's another point you should check first, however. If it's a flat, does your lease actually allow you to install a boiler in the roof? IME, it would be very unusual if that were the case. Do not assume that because the access point to the roof is in your flat that the roof space is included in your demised premises.

 

[Deleted member 131795]

yeah as mentioned i really don't have a lot of stuff so space isn't really an issue for me

it's a good point, but yes, it's my loft. it's just a block of two one up one down. i'm the freeholder too.

 

[Deleted member 131795]

I would generally see loft installation as a premium installation for space saving.
It is more difficult to get to for servicing and there would be some heat losses due to the cold loft in winter.
I don't have an airing cupboard and have a system boiler and unvented cylinder in the loft.
It sounds to me like your engineer is giving good advice but if you don't particularly want the extra space then I'd stick with the cupboard.

after taking into account some of your advice i have british gas quoting me on tuesday for a worcester bosch 4000 - just so i have another option. funnily enough british gas don't offer anything lower than the 4000 cos it's not made in uk. they consider the 4000 the entry level.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Wouldn’t go bg

 

[Deleted member 131795]

Wouldn’t go bg

hi shaun, not the first time i have heard this.. can you elaborate?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

hi shaun, not the first time i have heard this.. can you elaborate?

There rubbish quality vs the price be ok if they were half what there quoting but not any more you might even find they will use contractors for the install so not even bg employees

 

[Deleted member 131795]

There rubbish quality vs the price be ok if they were half what there quoting but not any more you might even find they will use contractors for the install so not even bg employees

yeah.. they are certainly expensive. they quoted me £6k in feb for the 4000 and 3 rads.

i had a viessmann guy quote me last week £4k for a 050-w system.

really the attractive thing for me is mostly just the four years interest free.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

yeah.. they are certainly expensive. they quoted me £6k in feb for the 4000 and 3 rads.

i had a viessmann guy quote me last week £4k for a 050-w system.

really the attractive thing for me is mostly just the four years interest free.

Your paying at least £1k for that and also nothing is 0% just fees built in tho might be better looking for a 4 year 0% interest cc

Or a low interest cc / bank loan

 

[Knappers]

For the price BG will quote I would expect perfection. For BG money I would throw in a powerflush and be fitting the very top of the range equipment, with the most beautiful pipework and perfect balancing.
That's not what you'll be getting tho!
Support local small buisness'

 

[Deleted member 131795]

For the price BG will quote I would expect perfection. For BG money I would throw in a powerflush and be fitting the very top of the range equipment, with the most beautiful pipework and perfect balancing.
That's not what you'll be getting tho!
Support local small buisness'

Yeah I also don't like the fact they don't give you the manufacturer's warranty, instead giving you their own reduced five year one. Seems like a bit of a trick, that.

The reason I am going to get a final quote from them is because my ex partner she keeps on and on at me saying they're the best and that they might seem dearer to begin with, they aren't.. and then she will give a ton of reasons.. like she seems to think that they are the only company to to provide a fixed quote that includes everything, including all the sub contractors jobs, add ons, roof work, electrics, etc. unlike locals and independents who will charge extras if things come up that they haven't accounted for.

I don't really have enough experience of this to know if she is right or wrong, but the locals firms that quoted me all stated that their quotes included all necessary work and there would be no additional costs.