Signing work off?

[Nostrum]

What happens when you sign off a boiler! Within 4 weeks, the home owner gets a notification licence from GSR, the document encourages the household to invite GSR for a free inspection. Suddenly your back side is up for a chance that the household doesn't call GSR in, day and night you'll be praying to God, there will be no dispute for as long as that boiler is on the wall, because I tell you, no matter how thorough you think you've been with your checks, GSR will find something wrong! Do I need to go on describing the rest!

I've had an un informed inspection from gas safe and would happily let them do it again. Didn't find anything wrong. Im sure they could have if they wanted to but they aren't out to string you up by your balls. Again it comes down to education. How many customer know about the notification process, or the consequences of not receiving one?

How about the customer applying for a notification prior to the job being completed, then the installer self certifying that installation using some unique number on the notification. If the customer doesn't receive confirmation of it they can chase the installer, or better still gas safe can do that. The system as it stands is flawed because the installer has all the cards and keeps the notification secret to an unsuspecting customer.

 

[Reg Man]

What is the definition of signing off work? If you are signing it off because you are misleading someone into thinking that you have installed the installation when you have not, then you take the consequence's if it goes bad. At the end of the day if your asked out to commission an appliance which you know to be installed by a none registered person, you carry out rigorous examination of the installation, do all the necessary tests and make it clear on the paperwork what you were there to do and that the installer is unknown or otherwise. Report the non registered person if known to GSR. Therefore you are only there to ensure that on the day of your visit the installation was gas tight and the appliance was installed as far as you could see in accordance with manufacturer instructions and passed all relevant tests. In the commercial industrial world of gas fitting, it is usual for the install to be done by others and the commissioning to be carried out by another company, not a lot of difference.

 

[Dannypipe]

Yeah, but we're talking about domestic work on the whole here. Which is a different beast, and it's generally frowned upon.

 

[Reg Man]

Yeah, but we're talking about domestic work on the whole here. Which is a different beast, and it's generally frowned upon.

Ok agree with that, what about the rest of the post.

 

[Masood]

What is the definition of signing off work? If you are signing it off because you are misleading someone into thinking that you have installed the installation when you have not, then you take the consequence's if it goes bad. At the end of the day if your asked out to commission an appliance which you know to be installed by a none registered person, you carry out rigorous examination of the installation, do all the necessary tests and make it clear on the paperwork what you were there to do and that the installer is unknown or otherwise. Report the non registered person if known to GSR. Therefore you are only there to ensure that on the day of your visit the installation was gas tight and the appliance was installed as far as you could see in accordance with manufacturer instructions and passed all relevant tests. In the commercial industrial world of gas fitting, it is usual for the install to be done by others and the commissioning to be carried out by another company, not a lot of difference.

You make a very valid point, and IF that were the case - that I was given free reign to inspect and test everything to my satisfaction (and be properly paid for my time) then I'd have no problem commissioning an installation. But in general, a GSR will be asked to sign off a third-party install because the customer is a tightwad and doesn't want to pay so has employed a non-GSR to install the appliance (or has done it him/herself).

For the record, I have commissioned and registered one installation by a non-GSR person. My father in law installed his own boiler during a refurb of his place. He is a former ship's engineer and chartered electrical engineer. His soldering/welding/electrics and engineering knowledge would put 99% of plumbers to shame. I had no qualms about doing it because I know the quality of his work, he asked lots of questions beforehand to make sure he did it right, and he called me at various stages to double-check things. He did it for the job satisfaction, not to penny-pinch or cut corners, and I had no issues putting my name to it.

 

[plumbdoctor]

Very good post here, but really it makes no difference to servicing a boiler that was installed before all the signing off came in, you may be unlucky enough to miss something and cos your the last one there your liable for the installation not the dodgey installation installer, and I do not sign off any work not worth it !

 

[Deleted member 44451]

signing off someone elses work should never happen, i have been asked to do it but have always refused. not only are you putting your name to work that you havent done but also killing our trade and encouraging anyone out there who watches a diy program on telly to have a go. if everyone refused to do it then people would stop asking, but i have heard many times down the years guys saying i would rather go and do that and earn a few quid that sit at home all day earning nothing.some people like to call our industry a profession, its never that because we dont stick together like a professional body its every man for himself and always has been.

 

[Derek Hardman]

Good post supaplum, we should be batting for the same side, I do believe that some are beginning to understand that this would be of benefit, which of course means that some are not!

 

[leethegasman]

I personally think that the only way that all gas appliances will be registered is if it hits customers in the pocket.if every appliance has say £300 added on to it by the manufacturer and when the appliance is installed and registered the £300 is then sent to the installer or customer.this would stop all the GSR installers doing cash installs and GSR installers that work for company's doing installs on the side.and also DIY.but let's not kid are selfs a lot of installs done by fully registered installers look like DIY work.i personally think we work in a industry where the quality of work is poor.and possibly why most installers stay on there own and don't grow the business.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

I think our main problem isnt unregistered engineers, its legit ones who cut their own throat and ours by doing installs for materials + £150, its just crazy some of the quotes im getting beat on

Either that or my merchant is pulling my pants down:smile:

 

[Derek Hardman]

It seems every new self employed gasman wants to undercut everybody!!!

 

[TBServices]

It seems every new self employed gasman wants to undercut everybody!!!

Not me, I'm like Stella Artois

 

[Deleted member 44451]

It seems every new self employed gasman wants to undercut everybody!!!

yep im getting the same, at one time i was getting most boiler changes i was quoting, not bcos i was cheap but people get you out and they just want a good job doing. thats all changed in recent times and its all down to money. and theres loads of guys out there looking for work and just undercutting everybody to keep busy. you can spot them in the merchants covered in crap eyes hanging out from working seven days a week for the last 5 years. busy fools !

 

[Derek Hardman]

I purposely put my price anywhere except the last sentence of the last page, I was slightly satisfied when a customer rang to say he got my quote, but there was no price on it, I told him 'that is because it is on page 2, you obviously missed that when you went right to the last page for the costs'!!!

 

[peteheat]

I am RGI but do very little in the line of service or repairs simply because I hate the thoughts of signing off on a system that could have a hidden fault.

Maybe change the wording from Gas Safe to something like Anti Explosion Testing.

Seriously this must be one of the only industries where we are in control of an explosive entering a domestic or commercial premises, even Airports and
yet from what I see one of the lowest paid?

Recently I was asked to tender issuing Gas safe certs also known as a service to gas boilers for a local authority, so before the official tender I threw
out a figure for the Clerk of Works just looking to see if I could get a guide.

I got a lot more in fact I reckon he hasn't slept properly because he hasn't stopped laughing, I was over 4 times higher than the expected figure
which was a drop of €4.00 on last years price maybe not the exact numbers as it was pre-tender but a major shock to me.

How many have forgotten the Gas Safety modules and the exams?

They expect to meet or even beat their expected figure because so many have qualified doing courses and are now able to legally register as RGI's.

Looks like the nine minute gas boiler service is going to continue getting faster until there is a major tragedy, I would not like to be the RGI that day.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I think our main problem isnt unregistered engineers, its legit ones who cut their own throat and ours by doing installs for materials + £150, its just crazy some of the quotes im getting beat on

Either that or my merchant is pulling my pants down:smile:

I totally agree.
For example - Mr TP now mid 40s trained as apprentice from 16 - so has a bit of experience behind him.
We are lucky, we are busy and making a good living - BUT not from gas work. We could totally give up being GSR for what it brings in for our family. Our main income from Tara Plumbing is plumbing and associated work that require NO formal qualifications, trade body etc...

That just seems mad - you would think being qualified and GSR would give you access to well paid work that the Vast majority of the population can't do.
Any one can do tiling (even I have done it!) - but the tiler seems to earn as much or more!

Recently we quoted for a complicated 4-5 day heating job and 2 others under cut us by £2k! How did they do that?
OK if they were not VAT registered that gives them a head start anyway but they must be desperate for the work!
Because they certainly are not putting a high enough value on the fact of their training... etc.
(BTW the customer assured us that they were like to like quotes).

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

i better get on that tiling short course, the daily mail said they earn £90k +

 

[Dannypipe]

Tilers do make good money, but tiling is horrible. I can do it to a good standard, but not quickly. Nearly all the tiling on my portfolio was done by my father, brother or the carpenter who works for me. He's probably the best tiler I've ever met, but by trade he's a joiner.

 

[TBServices]

Tilers do make good money, but tiling is horrible. I can do it to a good standard, but not quickly. Nearly all the tiling on my portfolio was done by my father, brother or the carpenter who works for me. He's probably the best tiler I've ever met, but by trade he's a joiner.

I hate tiling 🙁 but it doubles profit on bathroom jobs so I end up doing it.

 

[Derek Hardman]

I wouldnt let anyone else do the tiling if I were doing a bathroom. Oh sheeet!! Im a control freak!

 

[TBServices]

I wouldnt let anyone else do the tiling if I were doing a bathroom. Oh sheeet!! Im a control freak!

This is my problem also. I can't trust anyone else to meet my standards, except for 1 guy I know who is always too busy.

 

[Dannypipe]

I find it doesn't double the profit for me, as it takes me longer than someone who's better than me!

I own a £1400 Rubi Bridge saw, which makes life a little easier, as it is a joy to use, but a bit of a beast.

I tiled the floor of the last bathroom we did. Quickly remembered why I avoid it!

 

[Dannypipe]

I'm fortunete that the guys I work with work to such high standards, so I trust them over myself!

 

[TBServices]

I find it doesn't double the profit for me, as it takes me longer than someone who's better than me!

I own a £1400 Rubi Bridge saw, which makes life a little easier, as it is a joy to use, but a bit of a beast.

I tiled the floor of the last bathroom we did. Quickly remembered why I avoid it!

I charge the same for tiling as I do for plumbing. Based on a day rate. If they dont like my rates they can find their own tiler, but i find that putting in a price for the whole job works in my favour. And usually there's more tiling work than plumbing.